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The State of Sandbox

almost 8 years

For years, this lobby has been stagnant, it has been declining in activity, and it has quickly been losing interest for those of us who have been here for a couple of years. The ownership of the lobby being passed around like a game of hot potato to me was unacceptable and therefore I decided to create a plan to change the lobby and make it a better and safer experience for those of us here. I was made aware that I was the heir to the throne long ago and ever since then, I began to work on some of these ideas. I have been observing the lobby for years and participating when necessary so that I could bring you, the people, the necessary changes that you need.

To begin,

I did not intend to rule alone or with just the moderators I choose, I was not interested in a clique ruling the lobby like we are going to have with an owner like Merlot and like we had with Bebop. This secretive clique may be great for those who Merlot and Bebop are looking out for (themselves, other site moderators), but it is not good for the people. I intended to rule with transparency -- true transparency. I wanted the people of Sandbox to help make decisions and I intended to start up open forums to hear what you had to say on issues such as what the role of the lobby moderator should be since they do not do much (I will talk about this more later on in this thread) and if the moderators and I could not come to a decision about what to do with controversial issues like certain users posting content in the lobby chat, then we'd create an open forum allowing the people to have their say on the issue.

The role of the moderators would drastically change, making them more useful within the lobby as I have seen many people say that moderators just aren't needed in Sandbox, here are the descriptions of the roles that I created with the help of some of my friends which were set to be included in the moderator applications yesterday before the lobby was stolen from me:

Position: Forum Moderator Description: The forum moderator is the peace keeper of the forums. Their responsibilities include sticking the most relevant threads to the lobby wall, moving topics to their appropriate location, judging and enforcing rules violations in forums, and creating topics of interest. You should apply if: You are a very active user. You enjoy reading TheLastProphet’s and MeetTerry’s posts. You are organized.

Position: Games Moderator Description: The Games Moderator will have several responsibilities all of which include keeping the community having fun. The Games mod will be in charge of choosing the stickied setups, hosting setups and introducing new ones, hosting forum games or alternative games outside of sandbox or promoting games others are hosting. You should apply if: You are a very active user. You are creative. You are a good host. You enjoy the mafia based aspect of this mafia simulator site.

Position: Enforcer Moderator Description: The Enforcer Moderator will be the strong arm of the law. They must enforce the rules and will make no leeway for personal relationships. While all mods enforce the rules, the Enforcer Mod will be the primary mod to handle violations, give out punishment, police the lobby wall and lobby chat, and serve anyone who feels their experience in sandbox is being affected by other users. You should apply if: You are a very active user. You consider yourself tempered and level-headed. You are neither an SJW nor a racist. You’re not going to go on a banning spree.

Position: Community Moderator Description: The Community Mod will come up with the lobby announcements. They can keep the community up to date with events users are hosting such as: plugdj, discord, jackbox and movie nights. They will also lead design based aspects of sandbox including choosing the lobby banner, the lobby background, and the lobby polls. You should apply if: You are a very active user. You don’t need to be an artist but should have artistic taste. You communicate well with others and are up to date on social happenings.

We would put great empashize on having more community-orientented games like Dooze's Sandbox Assassin and Amelio's Sandbox Big Brother, SupBros' large games, or Plissken's unique events. We would create a fun lobby where we constantly have events being run and promote these events well rather than leaving the lobby stagnant as I talked about earlier and just having the same setup being hosted every single day.

I had great interest in running a lobby with an enforced set of rules, yet lenient when it needs to be. I had great interest I running the lobby with a policy in which everyone can play in Sandbox, but those who constantly interfere with the functioning of the lobby will be barred from playing here, a fair chance policy. This policy would also state that the moderators and even the owner themselves could not hold grudges and act due to that fact and this would include a fair chance when choosing moderators as well. With the fair chance policy, the moderators must live up to the rule as well and will be held to the highest of standards. In the event we had a moderator abusing their powers like error did, they would be removed from their position because of their interference with the functioning of the lobby. The main rules I believe need to be enforced are those that protect the people from legitimately feeling unsafe within the lobby. The people doxing users, threatening to reveal someone's personal information, and effectively chasing out our active userbase should not be allowed in this lobby -- and Bebop & friends are no stranger to doing this.

http://i.imgur.com/EmBybqe.png Bebop on who he thought the next Sandbox owner would be

http://i.imgur.com/XCsxx5M.png As we know, Bebop and his friends are no strangers to doxing users and threatening to reveal their personal information, this whatever it takes attitude is very telling.

http://i.imgur.com/pIHybZb.png He is not interested in working with the two moderators that have actually been beneficial to this lobby in recent memory. We can easily assume the hivemind believes the same.

I applied to be a moderator of this lobby under other owners in the past and have included my desire to be apart of a team with conflicting opinions in the application, and I have that same wish today and I wish to have people argue against me during these open forum discussions and I wish for people to play devil's advocate and I want to come to the best decisions possible as a result of this. I think it is crucial that everyone feels as though they can speak their true mind instead of feeling like they'll be punished for saying something the owner disagrees with like the moderators felt during Bebop's reign. I may not always make the best executive decision, but if someone can win a debate about something I did, then I think it is very telling that I made the wrong decision because if I was right, I should be able to defend myself and my decision. When Bebop made the many poor decisions he made during his reigns and the community argued against him, he resorted to arguing using jokes and memes to avoid having to actually argue and defend his decision -- this was one of the things I could not stand to do as owner as it is cowardly and it is not for the good of the people.

I was not interested in being pushed around by the site moderators (this is why they removed me, they knew I would not bow down to them) because these same site moderators are the same people that do nothing and in fact, support the doxing, threatening, and chasing away of our people from Sandbox. We needed someone to stand up to these people and I do believe we still need that. No one should fear for their safety on a mafia simulator site, this site should be to have fun, but it is most definitely not fun to have your personal information taken from you and it is not fun to be threatened with it.

I was the owner of this lobby and I was going to make it a great environment for all of us, but the fact is that it wasn't stolen from me -- it was stolen from all of you. During Bebop's reign, I was very much against the shady things Bebop & his friends were doing and fought to expose them and I did so, these people are not looking out for anyone but themselves and those who are in their hivemind. Edark removed me from the owner position because of many things including me openly stating that I do not feel as though he is fit to be an administrator ad he knew he could not control me or intimidate me. Edark did not come to me to ask me what my plans were or what my stance on any controversial issues were like that of the hateful comments rule that he asked baaabaa about when she was the interm owner -- he just removed me. Now the lobby is under the control of someone who has supported doxing users, threatening to reveal their personal information, and then chasing these same users out of the lobby out of fear -- and I just do not find this acceptable. If the people do not believe me to be the right fit to become owner once more, then I am formally giving my support to lobby moderator Dooze as I know she will implement these ideas and many others in order to protect all of you from people like Bebop, Edark, and friends.

Thank you, Jamal Marley

almost 8 years

MrMongrel says

Edark has expressed he understands good and well where the hate is coming from before, now he's just choosing to ignore it for the sake of defending his friend.


#replaceEdark
almost 8 years
Edark has expressed he understands good and well where the hate is coming from before, now he's just choosing to ignore it for the sake of defending his friend.
almost 8 years
Edark regardless of Merlot's qualifications I think everyone in sandbox want's someone who is actually active in sandbox, not someone who left and cited their reason for leaving being that they have no more connection with sandbox.
deletedalmost 8 years
sigh youre just not understanding my point, are you? i've said all i wanted to say; if you want to keep repeating yourself go ahead
almost 8 years
Merlot has done bad things in the past according to Edark, this too should disqualify her from being the owner of this lobby.

"But she has changed"

I have as well. See my earlier post to Floor regarding the things I have been doing for this lobby and this site recently.

"But I saw her progress myself when we worked together"

But I wasn't given the chance to work with you or even speak to you before you took the lobby from me. I was online when I was made the owner of Sandbox, if I was a threat and there was a chance I would ban people I don't like, I would have done that early on but in the 4 or so hours I was owner before I went to bed, the only thing I did was change "Hello, friends" in the description of the lobby to "Greetings, users.".

Terrible, right?
almost 8 years

BaneofMafia says


Bebop says


MrMongrel says

doxxing and threatening players she and her clique don't like. I'm not aware of how accurate that last claim is, but its pretty damning if thats the case.


it's not the case at all and it's fairly misleading to present it in the way that people have, she made some distasteful jokes towards golbolco and i'm not excusing that, but saying that she's involved with "doxing people her clique don't like" is simply false. she hasn't doxed anyone and nor have i.


If you cared about sandbox you would have valued the community's opinions when they brought complaints against error. You took his side and not ours.

If you cared about sandbox you would agree Merlot should pass ownership to someone most of the community can agree on. You are taking her side and not ours.

If you cared about sandbox being independent of site- wide rules like you once argued for Sandexit, you would be against administrator interference in ownership. Like you supposedly care about Brexit being free of EU interference.

If you cared about sandbox you would have responded sincerely to complaints during and after your ownership with an open ear, an open heart, and an open mind. Instead you continue to deflect to memes.

If you cared about sandbox, you would be addressing complaints instead of chiming in to defend yourself and your friends.

If you cared about sandbox, you would defend victims of doxxing regardless of who stands accused.

If you cared about sandbox you would participate in the games, get to the know the community and find ways to improve it.

I'm sure you are a smart, capable young man and you are not immune to making mistakes in judgment --but please, for once be on our side Bebop or stop pretending you care about sandbox.


DAMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.
almost 8 years

Edark says

Well mrmongrel, I've actually worked with merlot with her being a moderator and frankly I dont see where all the hate is coming from. But as I said, you're more than welcome to back up your claims.


Which claim, Edark? The one I said I wasn't clear on?

Or the fact that you've poorly chosen moderators before, the fact that you're making this decision with the bias of her being a good friend of yours, the fact that the community doesn't want merlot, or maybe its the fact that she herself has expressed serious disdain for the community as a whole?

Lmk.
almost 8 years

Kaworu says

yo bebop instead of owning the fact that the games aren't as fun anymore and bashing them, why don't you try to support a mod that will make them fun like this site is supposed to do


i'm not bashing games if people enjoy playing them then more power to 'em, i'm simply stating that there is more to do on the site than play games, especially when the largest part of my time on the site has been spent playing games. i don't think games aren't fun, i'm just tired of them because i've played so much.
deletedalmost 8 years

Edark says

I cant change owner on a whim. Unless merlot proves to be a bad owner I wont really step in.



You what
almost 8 years
Why do you think owner's have more responsiblities than a site mod Jamal? If anything its the reverse.
deletedalmost 8 years

Bebop says


MrMongrel says

doxxing and threatening players she and her clique don't like. I'm not aware of how accurate that last claim is, but its pretty damning if thats the case.


it's not the case at all and it's fairly misleading to present it in the way that people have, she made some distasteful jokes towards golbolco and i'm not excusing that, but saying that she's involved with "doxing people her clique don't like" is simply false. she hasn't doxed anyone and nor have i.


If you cared about sandbox you would have valued the community's opinions when they brought complaints against error. You took his side and not ours.

If you cared about sandbox you would agree Merlot should pass ownership to someone most of the community can agree on. You are taking her side and not ours.

If you cared about sandbox being independent of site- wide rules like you once argued for Sandexit, you would be against administrator interference in ownership. Like you supposedly care about Brexit being free of EU interference.

If you cared about sandbox you would have responded sincerely to complaints during and after your ownership with an open ear, an open heart, and an open mind. Instead you continue to deflect to memes.

If you cared about sandbox, you would be addressing complaints instead of chiming in to defend yourself and your friends.

If you cared about sandbox, you would defend victims of doxxing regardless of who stands accused.

If you cared about sandbox you would participate in the games, get to the know the community and find ways to improve it.

I'm sure you are a smart, capable young man and you are not immune to making mistakes in judgment --but please, for once be on our side Bebop or stop pretending you care about sandbox.
almost 8 years

Edark says


JamalMarley says


Edark says


JamalMarley says


Edark says


MrMongrel says

Edark, I just want you to understand why this is frustrating.

We understand you're good close personal friends with Merlot, thats cool. But its not what the community wants.

You modded error despite a community backlash and look what that turned into, we're just asking for you to work with us on this one.


You can nitpick many things I've done and received community backlash that has gone sour, but most of the times nothing bad happends.

You're more than welcome to present and back up those claims of doxxing tho.


What is the issue with making dooze the owner? Why do you believe Merlot is a better option?

Every good thing you can say about Merlot being the owner can be said about Dooze being the owner but with Dooze, there's no downsides and the people actually want her as the owner.


I cant change owner on a whim. Unless merlot proves to be a bad owner I wont really step in.

She has been a great mod so in my eyes she is far more capable than most users already,


You did change owner on a whim when you took the lobby from me without even speaking to me. I did not prove to be a bad owner, but you stepped in.

Dooze has been proven to be a great Sandbox moderator, perfect for the lobby she should own -- Sandbox. She is far more capable than most users already.


Considering your past behaviour I dont think its worth the risk of having you as the owner. Sorry pal.


I'm not demanding you give the lobby back to me, I am saying you should give the lobby to someone the people want -- that is Dooze.

Bebop mentioned some of Merlot's past behaviour earlier and how she shouldn't have done some of the things she did to certain users, certainly this too should be enough for you to not think its worth the risk of having her as the owner.
deletedalmost 8 years
yo bebop instead of owning the fact that the games aren't as fun anymore and bashing them, why don't you try to support a mod that will make them fun like this site is supposed to do
almost 8 years
Well mrmongrel, I've actually worked with merlot with her being a moderator and frankly I dont see where all the hate is coming from. But as I said, you're more than welcome to back up your claims.
deletedalmost 8 years
i believe we should change back the owner of the lobby back to Jamal he seems genuine, unless we know the plans of merlot
almost 8 years

Edark says


JamalMarley says


Edark says


JamalMarley says


Edark says


MrMongrel says

Edark, I just want you to understand why this is frustrating.

We understand you're good close personal friends with Merlot, thats cool. But its not what the community wants.

You modded error despite a community backlash and look what that turned into, we're just asking for you to work with us on this one.


You can nitpick many things I've done and received community backlash that has gone sour, but most of the times nothing bad happends.

You're more than welcome to present and back up those claims of doxxing tho.


What is the issue with making dooze the owner? Why do you believe Merlot is a better option?

Every good thing you can say about Merlot being the owner can be said about Dooze being the owner but with Dooze, there's no downsides and the people actually want her as the owner.


I cant change owner on a whim. Unless merlot proves to be a bad owner I wont really step in.

She has been a great mod so in my eyes she is far more capable than most users already,


You did change owner on a whim when you took the lobby from me without even speaking to me. I did not prove to be a bad owner, but you stepped in.

Dooze has been proven to be a great Sandbox moderator, perfect for the lobby she should own -- Sandbox. She is far more capable than most users already.


Considering your past behaviour I dont think its worth the risk of having you as the owner. Sorry pal.


Is that really your defense when you gave ownership to merlot?

wew ok
almost 8 years

JamalMarley says


Edark says


JamalMarley says


Edark says


MrMongrel says

Edark, I just want you to understand why this is frustrating.

We understand you're good close personal friends with Merlot, thats cool. But its not what the community wants.

You modded error despite a community backlash and look what that turned into, we're just asking for you to work with us on this one.


You can nitpick many things I've done and received community backlash that has gone sour, but most of the times nothing bad happends.

You're more than welcome to present and back up those claims of doxxing tho.


What is the issue with making dooze the owner? Why do you believe Merlot is a better option?

Every good thing you can say about Merlot being the owner can be said about Dooze being the owner but with Dooze, there's no downsides and the people actually want her as the owner.


I cant change owner on a whim. Unless merlot proves to be a bad owner I wont really step in.

She has been a great mod so in my eyes she is far more capable than most users already,


You did change owner on a whim when you took the lobby from me without even speaking to me. I did not prove to be a bad owner, but you stepped in.

Dooze has been proven to be a great Sandbox moderator, perfect for the lobby she should own -- Sandbox. She is far more capable than most users already.


Considering your past behaviour I dont think its worth the risk of having you as the owner. Sorry pal.
almost 8 years
i understand the discussion going on i'm just confused as to why kaworu is having a go at me for not playing games when games aren't the only thing to do on the site
almost 8 years

Bebop says


Kaworu says

can someone else explain to bebop that this website isn't a skype group


you understand you're talking on the forums right now, as we speak? there is more to epicmafia than playing games


The ownership and moderation directly impacts the amount of people playing games and how they're played, therefore we're discussing it because of its impact on games outside of the game itself.
almost 8 years

Kaworu says


Bebop says


Kaworu says

can someone else explain to bebop that this website isn't a skype group


you understand you're talking on the forums right now, as we speak? there is more to epicmafia than playing games


zzz im at school you loser


oh right you're at school i guess the forums and lobby chat just don't exist then
almost 8 years

Edark says


JamalMarley says


Edark says


MrMongrel says

Edark, I just want you to understand why this is frustrating.

We understand you're good close personal friends with Merlot, thats cool. But its not what the community wants.

You modded error despite a community backlash and look what that turned into, we're just asking for you to work with us on this one.


You can nitpick many things I've done and received community backlash that has gone sour, but most of the times nothing bad happends.

You're more than welcome to present and back up those claims of doxxing tho.


What is the issue with making dooze the owner? Why do you believe Merlot is a better option?

Every good thing you can say about Merlot being the owner can be said about Dooze being the owner but with Dooze, there's no downsides and the people actually want her as the owner.


I cant change owner on a whim. Unless merlot proves to be a bad owner I wont really step in.

She has been a great mod so in my eyes she is far more capable than most users already,


You did change owner on a whim when you took the lobby from me without even speaking to me. I did not prove to be a bad owner, but you stepped in.

Dooze has been proven to be a great Sandbox moderator, perfect for the lobby she should own -- Sandbox. She is far more capable than most users already.
almost 8 years

riskitforthebiscuit says


Bebop says


Kaworu says

can someone else explain to bebop that this website isn't a skype group


you understand you're talking on the forums right now, as we speak? there is more to epicmafia than playing games


I think the fact that you're mod upvoting random comments that derail the conversation in a thread that's supposed to be about a serious subject shows that you don't really care that much about sandbox.


that or i just find them funny? upvotes literally don't make any difference on a post
deletedalmost 8 years

Bebop says


Kaworu says

can someone else explain to bebop that this website isn't a skype group


you understand you're talking on the forums right now, as we speak? there is more to epicmafia than playing games


zzz im at school you loser
almost 8 years

Bebop says


Kaworu says

can someone else explain to bebop that this website isn't a skype group


you understand you're talking on the forums right now, as we speak? there is more to epicmafia than playing games


I think the fact that you're mod upvoting random comments that derail the conversation in a thread that's supposed to be about a serious subject shows that you don't really care that much about sandbox.
almost 8 years

JamalMarley says


Edark says


MrMongrel says

Edark, I just want you to understand why this is frustrating.

We understand you're good close personal friends with Merlot, thats cool. But its not what the community wants.

You modded error despite a community backlash and look what that turned into, we're just asking for you to work with us on this one.


You can nitpick many things I've done and received community backlash that has gone sour, but most of the times nothing bad happends.

You're more than welcome to present and back up those claims of doxxing tho.


What is the issue with making dooze the owner? Why do you believe Merlot is a better option?

Every good thing you can say about Merlot being the owner can be said about Dooze being the owner but with Dooze, there's no downsides and the people actually want her as the owner.


I cant change owner on a whim. Unless merlot proves to be a bad owner I wont really step in.

She has been a great mod so in my eyes she is far more capable than most users already,