It's really sad that main has better setup diversity. Sure they may play Fancy Pants too much, but at least their competitive setups rotate and new things are coming into play every now and again. When I was testing out some new setups with the Role Patrol group, we were overlooked in sandbox but games filled in minutes in Main.
Closed roles didn't always exist. It was suggested back in 2011. When I joined in 2012, sandbox still wasn't completely dominated with closed roles games. Sandbox was just the lobby you could play for fun, instead of the serious attitude in Training or Competitive (for you newbies, training became Main lobby and the dedicated competitive lobby died off). When I started playing and I was my turn to host, I would hand make a setup each time, trying to put a little balance in it as I went. Maybe the Sandbox Setup is so popular out of laziness. It's right there, stickied, and ready to go and you know people will join it at this point so might as well, right?
Did you know there are over 1,200,000 setups saved? Sure most of them will be crap and duplicates, but even out of half of them Sandbox will be playing the same old closed roles one (with the occasional update with new roles, of course).
This is the part of the post when I do a counter point. "But sl0nderman," you are saying to yourself, "the beauty of closed roles is that you get a semi-unique setup each time you host!" Well this is where Sandbox gets part of it's reputation of "not trying." Yes, part of that is the lack of rules, but the other part is that there is less strategy in a closed roles setup than in normal ones. There's little to no way of knowing what roles are in play for the average player in the Sandbox Setup, which in turn causes people to not think about actions as much. Say you went to gun you friend but they were actually a granny and you died. Say everyone just automatically NL'd on the first day but there was an interrogator in play and he just killed the doctor. You can't fault the players for this, there's no way to play around literally every role in the game.
Maybe I've been around too long (which is silly because I've not even close to one of the oldest users on the site), but don't you get bored, Sandbox? Obviously there are those of you who are so done with games that you've complete given up and just sit around in the chat.
I invite everyone who is willing to play games to do a very simple thing. Host a different setup and try something new. There are literally a million to choose from. You'll probably start having more fun that you realize.
EDIT: SHUFFLING THE NUMBER OF PLAYERS AROUND IS FAKE DIVERSITY
Diversity in Setups
24 signed
I pledge to do my part and bring a little damn variety into sandbox.
No one truly cares about the outcome. I'm not saying not ever, but rarely. It's not even going through the motions, it's just joining and dying purely for the hell of it. No thought, no creativity, no effort. I like the games people make themselves, but there aren't enough of them. We need to make those games outnumber the 12 player closed role games. And I still think we should just split the lobby so 12 player closed role games would be its own thing and sanbox could go back to what it truly means.
I don't think I can take seriously people who support this thread and then go contribute to the problem. Again, I don't support banning the 12 closed role crap games, but they are a cancer to sandbox and maybe it's time had a large group of people refuse to play in them for a time. Like, some months and start making their own games and reteaching and reprogramming the players to do things differently. I've seen it done many times just never for a long time. The more people just say "Yeah, this is so right" but then go contribute, that helps nothing. So the next time you wanna host, do what I do. Make your own. Most people stay in my games until the end because they are invested in something I thought through as oppose to going into some random game and most people leave as soon as they die, which doesn't take long and then hurry to the next game that the current three hosts are racing each other to make in quick succession. That's all that goes on. Any given day.
deletedover 7 years
100% agree! I've been saying this for ages - more varied setups whether they're closed roles or not.
What's Role Patrol? Also I agree that it sucks. I always try to make cool setups but nobody joins them, I even tried some of the more popular old setups and 5 players joined but then left.
Like I said about trying in an earlier post: it's not the setups, it's the people who lack strategy. Plenty just tab out and come back to NL/vote whoever the PR says is the mafia, then leave again. People who are watching the game aren't very common in my experience.
deletedover 7 years
other than that though i do agree with you and also with plissken i'm a huge fan of his setups and i can't even count how many times we've had to remake games or change to a smaller setup because no one wants to join.
deletedover 7 years
"Yes, part of that is the lack of rules, but the other part is that there is less strategy in a closed roles setup than in normal ones." i'm going to disagree with that point and that point alone (i'm a huge fan of diversifying sandbox setups i agree with your other points) just because i feel like with a closed roles setup your mind is constantly running through a million different scenarios and it keeps me more alert and that's probably why i like playing it vs main setups that are the exact same strategies over and over. just because people in sandbox tend to not take it seriously doesn't mean there's no strategy involved
Using the fact that people aren't playing to win is part of the strategy. Gotta capitalize on their brain dead sheep behavior. If you want actual competition i'm pretty sure there's a lobby for that.
Why not?
On a side note, screw you for calling me a dumbass for having a different opinion. I think your love for anime is childish and sickening. But I don't put you in a game mode saying that.
How can you say there is strategy in sandbox and in the same breath claim that people aren't playing to win? Further to the point, why bother joining the game if you're just going to vote and not even attempt to win except by a stroke of luck? Those who even try in the slightest in sandbox are usually awarded with wins because of the sheer lack of effort employed by the players here. People trying makes games so much more enjoyable, instead of the dull situation that we have now. I still say breaking the monotony is the kick in the pants that sandbox players need to realize that there is actually a game to be played.
Alright boyo, I read through your whole cry baby rant this time. You might complain that there is no strategy but there is. Most people aren't playing to win. When they see 2 votes on someone, they join in. If you were smart enough you'd recognize this happens 90% of the time and you can create a strategy around it. If you want a game where everyone is actively trying to win then go to Main.
As for the people playing the same set-up over and over again, it's what we do, it's what we know, and we're used to it.
This is all just my opinion.
deletedover 7 years
The thing is with the sandbox setup it promotes being lazy, copying your report outright is meta, no strategy to cc roles, its completely random if you win or not. This means it will never be taken seriously. Theres no strategy, just some cool moments where you need to remember some role logic. Its why most of it is boring unless you get a cool role, its why people say roles are 'weak' or 'OP'. They're not, each role is building blocks for a creative and unique setup. In main lobby, people just play the popular setups, but sandbox should be a place where people join random wacky setups and think, with the occasional closed role game to sit back chat and relax.
I agree very much with what you said, Plissken. Even the closed roles "uniqueness" has fallen into routine. If there's no reports, people endlessly NL until the town loses. Otherwise, it's just meaningless bandwagons. It's very sad that people seem to think that "not trying" in sandbox equates to do literally nothing besides vote in games.
Lastly it seems like people dont wanna think or try anymore either. They want every game they play handed to them. They dont wanna play, they are like Main Lobbyist, they play robotically. It isn't playing, it's reciting what you're 'suppose to do' In a Plissken game you do whatever you want and expect anything and dont conform for the hell of it and my games are set up to help set that tone. Any game is really, but you have to be willing to stop having your hand held and switch up your play style as well.
That had to be said as well. People dont like to do anything they just wanna watch and go through the motions. It's like playing Tell Tale Games reaction based stuff (i do like TellTale) but it's basically you watching a long movie while tapping buttons every now and then. You can do that or you can play GTA....
They want a premature ejaculation of a game that 12 player closed role games would give not a viagra feuled rock hard rush that a Plissken game would give them.
And it's not everyone, but people are leaving as well. Most notable names have left and others come in their place and the game lives on now if only we could get more people to be creative.
I petitioned against this crap once and I would be for banning it, but then I'd be limiting people's wide range freedom of game play. But maybe... one day people will see what's in front of them.
In Slasher we didnt have a choice, but the damn community, roles, atmosphere and setup was just so awesome. I still miss how you could have one game go on literally for days and preset it for friends with invites etc. I still say it's the best version of this game style, but I do love being a EM Host and I do love Sandbox and I do love seeing even a few people enjoy something different and express their happiness with that after every hiatus I take.
I have watched people become idiotically complacent with being in short games. Why? Why do you want to not fill larger games? Anyone who knows me knows what setup in particular I'm known for. SAW: Mafia Massacre. It is the best setup I've ever created and the most popular and it's small at only 10 players and it's just... not the same unless I host it, trust me. But the point is I know small or medium games are fun, I support all sizes, but as much as I have made smaller games complex, and lengthy, my most popular in particular, I have to say you all are missing out on what you can do with larger ones.
I always have told people logically if no one leaves every game would fill. Just stay because by the time you leave to play the next boring closed role you're in and out quicker than you had a chance to even try to strategize, but being in a longer game is somehow a turn off.
It's fun to be in a longer game as well. I know some people are like me, they came here because Slasher died. Slasher had limited roles, but the atmosphere and the length and the way the game was setup and it's chat, all of it made those few roles and this magic have immense replay value.
Here you have waaaay more roles and most of the people waste them... it's such a shame.
I'm happy to see the few that try. The ones like those people a year ago who filled a 17er and a 25er in the deadest hours of EM when no one thought it would fill and laughed and I said look, it's not just me, it's all of us, it's a team effort and it filled and fun was had. For a lengthy time.
There's so much more to it, but you nailed it. Sandbox isn't filled with more players that understand what they really have in the palm of their hands.
As a known advocate of the TRUE nature of what Sandbox is and should be I 100% endorse this. I have been here longer than 2 years, but have hosted over 2 years and I have created over 150+ unique setups and I am nearing my 200th in April 2017. I have had fun with three different generations of my circle, players, followers, supporters, whatever you wanna call em, I call em The Snake Pit.
We play fun interesting fresh games. My games are themed, synergy based or suspense and pulling you out of your comfort zone.
If you have a vast amount of flavors of donuts, over like 7,000 flavors and only use 90, where's the fun in that? That's what most do here and I've been sick of it for a long time.
I also hate Main Lobbyist. I dont advocate the robotic style in which they play and about it to mods if you dont play like a robot. True endless possibility and individual strategy cant be dictated by strict restricting rules.
Sandbox is wonderful, but it's these people... not only not utilizing all the roles possible in various ways that are different, but even game settings. Simply using different icons. I have several different styled games, but if I put up a Must Lynch, ppl run from that or a Must Act.
I have taken some of the most hated roles in the game and made people love them. I took roles thought unbeatable and proved otherwise, even one of my very own games. I have had fun with people in having some of my games teach me things even I hadn't considered about them and I carefully craft and construct my setups.
It's incredible when you go into Sandbox, join a Plissken game and nobody joins, instead flooding back into 12 players closed roles. What makes the same setup so appealing to people that it sucks all the life out of the lobby and makes people sui race over it? This is SANDBOX, people, a genre of video games where traditional structured gameplay is ignored in favor of freedom and experimentation. This is how troll setups get started, to mess with people and try to make you think before you mindlessly shuffle into an open game only to tab out and veg on the first night.
User of Epicmafia, I borrow a moment of your wandering eyes once again.
I still find it extremely depressing that even the slightest change, such as a deck being included in a game, causes players to so quickly to commit suicide. Are they blind and cannot see the obvious indicators of what the setup holds? Are they so stubborn than if the setup is not exactly as they expect, it is unplayable? Are they so selfish as they cannot bear to play a single game without their colored text?
This is a truly cancerous attitude that sandbox has adopted. As I and many others have stated, it was not always like this nor does it have to continue as this! Join things that differ from the norm of Sandbox and you will enjoy yourself by breaking the monotony! You can trust me on this fact!
deletedover 7 years
this is a good idea!! I'd love to play more sets like reverse maf and sets that continually get comped carefree in sandbox. I love sandbox but I also love main lobby sets ((but I'm too anxious to play ranked)) and no one joins anything but FP in main
I join any sets I see that are made for main lobby played in sadbox cause it's rly fun!! it sucks how ppl will sheep everyone and just play the usual 7-3-2 even though it's reeeeeeaaallllllyyyyyyy grown stale over years just as sl0nd pointed out
