Okay without using Poser as an example i'll try to break down my feelings on this.
I don't believe cheating and being a good mod are mutually exclusive. People who have cheated in the past may make some of the best mods, this is true.
However, I think the argument that ex-cheaters make BETTER mods is a terrible fallacy. It seems to be a recurring defence from those who have been caught cheating, just because you have cheated before doesn't make you better at catching cheaters and doesn't mean you know the rules better.
I think its ridiculous to prioritise modding cheaters. Cheaters should not be banned from becoming mods but those who have not cheated should be prioritised. Those who have cheated recently should be a last choice for becoming a moderator, just like those who have broken any major rules and received suspensions.
If an ex-cheater is legitimately the best choice to be a mod then I am all for it. I do think this is the exception rather than the rule.
I read that because the spoiler tempted me lmao, but don't be mistaken; I never fully read any of your posts, I just skimmed the first paragraph or so and realised you were either dumb or trolling.
Well the actual difference is that back in the day, there were a lot of people interested in trophying, and there was not any real certainty who was going to side with whom beyond close friends and partners. there were a lot more players just favoring others randomly, because cheating overlapped. people just made alliances or judgement calls in-game, based on who they were playing with and also what was said. the groups were formed in-game, not in skype lobbies, etc.
now that the attempts at cheating have moved outside the game, however, it is much more coordinated and less of a free-for-all. nothing will probably take us back to that point, because it was just a matter of time until cheating at the game got more sophisticated, but if you encourage friend meta, etc, then you do have the chance of groups joining lobbies without realizing one person is throwing for the other side despite claiming otherwise.
in other words, softly allowing cheating basically tells players it is ok to break their cheating rings to cheat for someone else, b.c no one is going to call them out on it etc or rat them out. theres nothing to rat out, its just standard play.
i mean it literally is an aspect to the game, as many of you like to subtly imply (cough pranay).
also i will take edark's lack of reply as affirmation and that this policy is now in effect, since confirming it is in effect would forfeit the point of quietly just permitting it.
great idea sexmachine, but yeah, playerbase size hampers it. maybe if you were around when reports were implemented, though, tbqh there were enough ppl back then that that might have worked with one single lobby
The report system's penalizations, starting out incredibly strict, gradually diminished in strength on the broad range of what was considered inappropriate gameplay. However, the damage has been done, and the reality is that the gameplay has suffered from people's playing around the rules.
Because that's what people do on the internet. They skirt the rules, because they can online. That's what makes it fun. And unfortunately, when the game we're playing suddenly requires you to take that fun conversation outside of the game, then we're not really having a conversation at all, are we? We're just rehearsing roles, filling in mechanical duties, sheeping clears, and systemizing the setup's variation on Mafia.
And this, this my friends, is what has happened to EM. This restrictive environment has not helped cultivate the game, and unfortunately, as necessary as it was at the point of its implementation, it only has shrunk the site, rather than retain the playerbase (admittedly it did so for a time).
Again, the reality of the long-term effects of the Report System has been a culture of moving the conversation outside of the game, and so as a player that tries to only speak inside the game, I can tell you, it's just not the same anymore. It used to be quite something else. Much more diverse, and not even close to this formulaic, guided gameplay.
Anyway, this is my little recommendation. Take it if you want. I think the site would be better off just silently acknowledging and accepting that people will always cheat in the game if they can, and let us all just enjoy that amusing experience. Because that's what a social psychological game is: amusing and experimental - not routine and competitive.
Cheers,
Vex/Derpachu/Vash/Orly/MMLM/et al
tl;dr, let cheating happen, it is literally a part of the game, so it will always happen somehow, and memes prosper. harambe smiles down on us
Guys, listen, I think you have forgotten something.
You have forgotten to enjoy this game and made it into something it's not. Mafia is not a good competitive game. It's not good at proving skill in this format, either, but that being said, most of you who trophy are very, very skillful.
We all get that. We are proud of your intellect and your ability to persuade.
But let's just be honest: most of you rig games now because guess what, that's what has always been done. Friends have always thrown for friends, and it's been that way since Day 1, to be honest.
What's changed is the way you conceal it, or the methodology, or just the attitude towards it.
Moving forward, I'm going to ask that the staff begins to allow friend meta, coding to friends, etc., so forth. Stop trying to catch cheaters.
We need to wane back on the report system entirely. People were always misbehaving, and they will continue to find a way to do so. Hateful remarks aside, which should be dealt with, the report system has done more harm than good to this site.
And at the core of the issue is cheating. Cheating used to just be in the game's chat. We had conversations that had implications, leading to rolesharing, teaming, etc. Now you guys are so shady about it and you always do it outside of the game, in another chat. What you've done with this process is remove the more freestyle conversation, the party element of Epicmafia.
A lot of time sure, but skill? I disagree. It took one hour for my counter-bin to her pastebin to be NV'd. If as much time has been spent on that investigation as you suggest, then surely they're even more lacking in skill than even I originally thought?
2nd Round - Debate
