For what it's worth, I don't believe trophies or winrates or really anything will tell you who is better than who. The only way to find out is to play with them and see how you do.
I wish I had never won anything and regret doing so immensely, and haven't run in the past 5 years largely out of protest. My biggest joy when I first made Tatami was how people assumed I would be garbage, assumed they were better because they had a trophy, and lord them over me. I'd smash them into pieces until they were forced to recognize who's better. Instead of learning the lesson, when it turned out I was Empire these people felt vindicated-they "knew that some random couldn't be better, of course it was someone with a trophy"
Brown's posts in this thread are really, really good.
As Empire I used to love 10p setups (TEO being my favorite but I also enjoyed Jan/A&D variants) and excel at them. I think this is true in that there are definitely many valid ways to play mafia. Gerry and I are a sharp, sharp contrast but we're both exceptional. Abe/SystemOverload is basically me/Maxwell gone horifically wrong, yet even with the neverending stream of bad logic he still wins a lot.
The reason I don't play 10p setups isn't because I can't. The reason is that they are unfun for me. I can win and I can win a lot, and I proved it by primarily playing them as Empire (and never having an account with less than 57% win) and in my first iterarion as Tatami (where after initially tanking my w/r to hide my identity, I proceeded to post 65% for the next 6 months straight). I can adapt, I can live in the caps spam and the AtE and people barely skimming to get reads, but when I'd rather just lose the game and get out of it than do it, there's no point. I only find the game fun if I'm allowed to be as complex and thoughtful as I can be, and while it's not impossible in a 10p, it's a lot less conducive of an environment.
You already know one player in particular came in this thread searching to see if his name was listed. He's probably so mad he's not listed. And you know exactly who I'm talking about.
So since we can't define fundamental mafia player, how do we determine the best? Trophies? No. Some people don't have time to play. Points? No. Some people farm red heart games. Win percentage? Sure. But that's not 100% accurate because people have to learn how to play for their first 20k points when they are sucky and have a bad win rate so it skews their percentage. Brownpimp has a 51.8 overall win % while Dominate which I play seriously on has a 65.8 win % over the last 6800 points. Basically 2 out of every 3 games. Can I maintain that over the next 6k points? Who knows! But will it be close to it? You bet. Consistency is the only way. I win trophies because I am consistent and finish near the top of every round usually with more than 1 account. Winning a trophy always comes down to 1-2 games that could have gone either way.
This post wasn't about me gloating. I just get fed up with people like Retti trying to discredit me or my playstyle because I am a SOCIAL player instead of a 'fundamental" player. I don't call them bad players but they like to call me one lol.
Do I claim to be the best scumhunter? No. There are better scumhunters than myself (Like Atikur). Am I above average/good at it? Yes. DO I make good strats? Yes. Combine with that my persona/charisma and you have a winning combination. I am also VERY consistent as far as performance.
You define fundamental mafia player according to Empire's playstyle but that can't be true since online mafia is derived from an IRL PARTY game with real people and emotions. There is no straight definition for fundamental mafia player.
Bottom line is that I have more range as a player because I can play in VDLI AND A&D. I can win MORE games in VDLI than a circlejerker can win in A&D. That's not to say they aren't good players or can't win in there. Don't put someone in the best player conversation if they can't play more than 3 games of an action setup without getting frustrated about all the people screaming and the caps spam etc.
Define fundamental mafia player. There is no hard definition.
Mafia is a party game turned competitive. It's a social game. You have to be likable for people to sheep you. You can't just have correct reads and be a and expect to win. You have to be able to survive lynches and survive n1 kills because you are cool.
As far as I see it, the spectrum ends are:
1) Me/Pranay- CAPS LOCK, loud, emotional. Difference is that people tend to like me more than they like him.
2) Empire/Retti- complete sentences, heavy logic etc.
Everyone else falls in somewhere in between.
The people like empire/retti like setups with 2 un cc'able clears and everyone just speaking all day. (VDLI, Cry n spy)
I like setups with action, strategy, and cc's.(Drunken disguise party, A&D)
Jan 2.0 is the best setup because it has a little bit of both aspects.
deletedabout 8 years
from a sizeable amount of trophies won maybe brownpimp could be #1 but i think he's the weakest in terms of fundamental mafia player
honestly shivv is one of the best players. i can't even begin to tell you how ridiculous he's acted before and somehow got his way, even with a decently smart town, he has screwed me so hard as town and mafia when he was the opposite alignment. i will always be jealous of him. i also admire arcbells older plays, nowadays i think he lost his touch(musta been cuz he threw so much for me XD) but before he was very analytical and logical. abe is ok if you don't mind waiting a few centuries for a hammer
I've seen some players who come to the site in passing and have some really good play for a while then taper off / get disillusioned with it / leave. Players who aren't on the "staple good players" list.
