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What's the point of an appeal?

about 8 years

I'm just trying to understand the system itself. I'm sure we can all agree that a method for double checking reports is a good thing. Yet it's far too easy to question the actual validity of the system itself when (as will be discussed) the system is highly subjective to an unpunishable abuse of moderation power.

A recent example (leaving names out to protect privacy) would be where a user received a violation and it was upheld through an appeal. The user in question then threw a bitchfit on the forum, quite clearly for the purpose of causing drama (as seen by the way they tried to publicize the issue, as well as presenting the issue in a manner that was not even the slightest way impartial, and threatening to leave the website), where a third mod stepped in and also confirmed that they would have handed out a vio as well. Finally, a fourth unnamed mod (who is quite slow, worthless, albeit somewhat brotherly) literally claimed to: 1. not read the game, 2. not read any of the discussion, 3. read ONLY the bitchfitter's posts, step in and singlehandedly overturn the ruling upheld by three separate mods on three separate occasions.

The aforementioned incident begs the question: what is the point of the appeals system? Why have this system itself in place when:
1. Anyone literally needs a single mod on their side to get an overturned ruling, regardless of how many mods support/oppose it.
2. There is no enforcement mechanism to prevent the aforementioned abuse of mod power (among other abuses).
3. The aforementioned abuse clearly and directly undermines the validity of the appeals system itself, and also shows a lack of uniformed enforcement of the rules.
4. Let's not forget that the legitimacy of the mods is directly given from the system which they frequently undermine.
5. How/why are we supposed to take the mods, the system, and the rules seriously if its authority figures undermine the source of their authority?

Let's be clear - this isn't a question about whether or not the ruling was correct or incorrect. This is a question about whether or not this type of mod abuse practice is acceptable, as well as questioning the point of the appeals system in the first place. What's the point of having a supreme court when a single dissenting justice can singlehandedly overturn the entire system's decision with no reviewing or punishment mechanism?

Should we have maybe another system where mods can get together and review cases that are very polarizing? Absolutely. However the current situation between the community and the mods can be described as strained, at best. These types of incidents need to be dealt with both systematically and transparently, or it just makes the mods and their rules enforcement a bigger joke than it already is (if that's even possible).

W A L R U S

about 8 years
S U R L A W
about 8 years

Golbolco says

Walrus gives a good argument and I see no counterarguments so I am inclined to side with him.

about 8 years
The aforementioned incident begs the question: what is the point of the appeals system?
the appeal system works as intended

Why have this system itself in place when:
1. Anyone literally needs a single mod on their side to get an overturned ruling, regardless of how many mods support/oppose it.
this does not happen, unless an admin overturns it

2. There is no enforcement mechanism to prevent the aforementioned abuse of mod power (among other abuses).
there is, you just don't see it

3. The aforementioned abuse clearly and directly undermines the validity of the appeals system itself, and also shows a lack of uniformed enforcement of the rules.
there is no aforementioned abuse

4. Let's not forget that the legitimacy of the mods is directly given from the system which they frequently undermine.
okay

5. How/why are we supposed to take the mods, the system, and the rules seriously if its authority figures undermine the source of their authority?
points 3, 4 and 5 fall apart when you realise points 1 and 2 are wrong
about 8 years

Hibiki says

the issue at hand was handled. one of the original moderators who sustained your report changed their mind, and a third agreed with them, leaving the votes at

ogi: laptop
nv: loser
nv: slow

simplypam never gave an official verdict, only an opinion in your thread



WE CAN TELL YOU STILL HAVEN'T READ THE OP OR ANY OF THE SUBSEQUENT DISCUSSIONS.

THE ISSUE AT HAND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. THE # OF INCOMPETENT MODS KEEPS RISING.
about 8 years

Hibiki says

loser changed his mind. any further questions?

about 8 years
the issue at hand was handled. one of the original moderators who sustained your report changed their mind, and a third agreed with them, leaving the votes at

ogi: laptop
nv: loser
nv: slow

simplypam never gave an official verdict, only an opinion in your thread
about 8 years

WildWalrus says


Hibiki says

are we gonna ignore the fact that wildwalrus is linked to a bunch of banned users


I GOT BANNED 2+ YEARS AGO FOR OFFICALLY TOO MANY NOTES/WARNINGS (VARIOUS VIOLATIONS THAT WOULD NOT BE VIOLATIONS TODAY, INCLUDING READING REPORT INCORRECTLY AND VEGGING IN A GAME UNINTENTIONALLY AND MISHAMMERING). I WAS SUBSEQUENTLY UNBANNED FOR TIME SERVED. I AM A L A W A B I D I N G W A L R U S.

YOUR FOCUS ON MY PAST INSTEAD OF THE ISSUE AT HAND IS D U L Y N O T E D, T H A N K Y O U F O R A S K I N G.

I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE OR BE A S H A M E D OF. IF ANYTHING, I'D BE EMBARRASSED AT THE QUALITY OF THE MODERATOR POSTS IN THIS THREAD.


you call this a nice format?
about 8 years

Kylo says

The mods seem to be having trouble handling Walrus. Might I suggest trying a pokeball?




WILD WALRUS USES AGILITY & EXTREME SPEED. POKEBALL CAN'T CATCH A W I L D W A L R U S.
deletedabout 8 years
The mods seem to be having trouble handling Walrus. Might I suggest trying a pokeball?
about 8 years
To break it down for Hibiki: WildWalrus was banned 2 or more years ago for too many notes/warnings, the violations being rules that no longer apply today. He is now unbanned for serving his time. You are moving the goalposts and are not focusing on the issue at hand like a mod would.
about 8 years

Hibiki says

well i'm not reading that post



YOU CAN'T READ A THREE PARAGRAPH POST THAT'S LAID OUT IN A NICE FORMAT? AND YOU CALL YOURSELF A MODERATOR?
about 8 years
W A L R U S WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT NOT A S I N G L E MOD P O S T HAS ACTUALLY ATTEMPTED TO ADDRESS THE PURPOSE OF THE ORIGINAL POST. THE FACT THAT THIS COMMENTS SECTION IS BEING DEGRADED INTO A SERIES OF JOKES IS A REFLECTION OF THE MODS.
about 8 years
well i'm not reading that post
about 8 years
Nice drama thread
deletedabout 8 years
You heard him, Connor. L A W A B I D I N G W A L R U S .
about 8 years

Hibiki says

are we gonna ignore the fact that wildwalrus is linked to a bunch of banned users


I GOT BANNED 2+ YEARS AGO FOR OFFICALLY TOO MANY NOTES/WARNINGS (VARIOUS VIOLATIONS THAT WOULD NOT BE VIOLATIONS TODAY, INCLUDING READING REPORT INCORRECTLY AND VEGGING IN A GAME UNINTENTIONALLY AND MISHAMMERING). I WAS SUBSEQUENTLY UNBANNED FOR TIME SERVED. I AM A L A W A B I D I N G W A L R U S.

YOUR FOCUS ON MY PAST INSTEAD OF THE ISSUE AT HAND IS D U L Y N O T E D, T H A N K Y O U F O R A S K I N G.

I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE OR BE A S H A M E D OF. IF ANYTHING, I'D BE EMBARRASSED AT THE QUALITY OF THE MODERATOR POSTS IN THIS THREAD.
deletedabout 8 years

Hibiki says

are we gonna ignore the fact that wildwalrus is linked to a bunch of banned users


Dang really? He's funny...
about 8 years
yes
about 8 years
are we gonna ignore the fact that wildwalrus is linked to a bunch of banned users
about 8 years
How to beat epicmafia.

Step 1. copy the entire website, its code, everything, and emulate it on a server.

Step 2. steal Lucids url or add a redirect to the site that "looks legit".

Step 3. gg
about 8 years
about 8 years
Walrus gives a good argument and I see no counterarguments so I am inclined to side with him.
about 8 years

Kylo says

WALRUS WALRUS COULD IT BE!

YOU'LL SAVE US FROM TYRANNY!

W
A
L
R
U
S
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WALRUS!
SURLAW!


W A L R U S U R L A W E I E I P O T A T O
R A G G L E F R A G G L E
T U S K S O F J U S T I C E A M I N A L P O W E R
W A L R U S
S U R L A W
E I E I O
O I E I E
deletedabout 8 years
WALRUS WALRUS COULD IT BE!

YOU'LL SAVE US FROM TYRANNY!

W
A
L
R
U
S
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WALRUS!
SURLAW!
about 8 years

vilden says

This guy is funny as hell

Give him what he wants




HERE IS W A L R U S' LIST OF D E M A N D S:

1. BUCKET OF FISH
2. ANOTHER BUCKET OF FISH
3. BOOK FOR MOD USE: http://www.k5learning.com/docs/ad_rc_gr2.png
4. MOD TO CONFIRM THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT W A L R U S OP IS STATING
5. MOD TO ANSWER W A L R U S OP
6. MOST POPULAR MOD IN THIS THREAD TO PROVE THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO THINK ANALYTICALLY