Epicmafia

internal issues with the mod team

almost 10 years

i wasn't planning on making a thread about this but i was having a conversation with someone and i had a realization that this is probably an issue that needs to be discussed in some capacity.

to start, the mods have this idea that the entire site is against them. because of this they try to minimize every sort of conflict possible, whether it be internal or external. most administrative decisions are becoming "how can i stop people from complaining," and for me at least, it made being a mod frustrating and not fun.

i'm not entirely sure how the mod team adopted this culture of appeasing every possible party, but from the inside at least, it's pretty obvious. mods aren't allowed to post on the forums or get into arguments at all, even as regular users, and it's a huge sacrifice of individuality. because of this, they're pretty much forced to take every insult directed at them with a smile, and it's created a culture of self-pitying, spineless mods that can't take any criticism. they can put it under the guise of professionalism, but at the end of the day there is no individuality there, and the mods are forced to meet the ridiculous standards of professionalism that vancy and others have set for them. there's a reason why you don't have mods that are regular forum posters anymore. regardless of how good of a choice they'd be, they aren't modded because they're either deemed "too unprofessional," "too controversial," or "not a team player." this means that most new mods are going to be spineless conformists that are afraid to disagree or have a mind of their own, just because if they do happen to disagree, they aren't being a good "team member."

when dan was an admin, he set up a good foundation for the moderators. i think he has a bachelor's in human resources or something, so that's probably where it stemmed from. either way, when he was an admin, all of us worked together efficiently and happily, and there weren't really any stragglers. that's because he had a really good attitude about being an administrator that i don't really think any other admin has had. dan was a leader, but he treated the mod team as a business with a very horizontal structure, where pretty much everyone was an equal, including him. that kind of attitude removed unhealthy conflict and created an atmosphere where everyone wanted to help each other. this idea of everyone being equal should come naturally, but for vancy and some other mods, it doesn't. there is blatant favoritism between the admins and mods, and between the mods themselves.

on top of that, vancy has somewhat of an authoritarian attitude where he isn't working with the mods, but the mods are working /for/ him and they have to answer /to/ him. this kind of attitude is absolutely ridiculous and creates an incredibly unhealthy and vitriolic atmosphere where it feels like if you disagree with him, you're working against him. there's no room for any sort of healthy conflict or discussion, because at the end of the day he has the final say. i've experienced it firsthand and i'm sure some mods agree with me too.

in summary: the mods have created this culture where they think everyone is against them so they try to reduce complaints as much as possible and it made them spineless, only "professional people" that will "work well with the team" can be modded, there is blatant favoritism between the admins and mods and the mods themselves, and vancy has an attitude that he isn't working with the mods but the mods are working for him.

this isn't meant to be an attack on vancy. i don't want him to respond. if he does, i'm sure he'll disagree with me on most of this, and i wouldn't blame him if he did, but this is what i noticed when i came back as a mod, and i never had these issues when dan was around. at the end of the day, mod culture sucks.

deletedalmost 10 years

Sims says

Kelly says

Renaldo says

and try to score e-girls .

i will score the most e-girls

that's me actually

rats

deletedalmost 10 years

Technically I was basically a co-admin the entire time Sacha was admin. And yeah I would take tough reports/controversial reports so as to save my mods from the community hate, and I'd do cheating investigations. Are you saying Vancy never does any of that? Given that he's already got as many reports done as Laexio did in the entire time he was admin (for a significantly longer period) and few mods of that era criticise Alex as being a bad admin.

Sims

almost 10 years

Kelly says

Renaldo says

and try to score e-girls .

i will score the most e-girls

that's me actually

deletedalmost 10 years

Renaldo says

and try to score e-girls .

i will score the most e-girls

deletedalmost 10 years

Renaldo says

Retti says

it's really hard to be a bad moderator honestly as long you have a decent moral compass and understand the rules. being run-of-the-mill is quite manageable and while im not saying names, i would say that there is far too many mods who fit in that category simply because they reserve themselves or try to stay unnoticed due to a fear of community backlash, which they aren't all to blame for feeling that way.

posting on the forums and being vocal =/= mediocre mod

not at all what i meant, the same character is displayed in reports and demeanor

deletedalmost 10 years

there's a lack of respect for the mods because it's almost like they've been backed in a corner, and there's too many concerned with this 'image' that they let people to step on them, and they're not allowed to say anything because it might be controversial

and it's just bringing down the team as a whole

deletedalmost 10 years

Retti says

it's really hard to be a bad moderator honestly as long you have a decent moral compass and understand the rules.

Depends how you're judging a moderator. Activity Levels? How often they screw up? Their attitude/demeanour?

Renaldo

almost 10 years

Retti says

it's really hard to be a bad moderator honestly as long you have a decent moral compass and understand the rules. being run-of-the-mill is quite manageable and while im not saying names, i would say that there is far too many mods who fit in that category simply because they reserve themselves or try to stay unnoticed due to a fear of community backlash, which they aren't all to blame for feeling that way.

posting on the forums and being vocal =/= mediocre mod

Sims

almost 10 years

Lashka says

And where would you put Sacha and I, Shacky? Because both of us would step in and make decisions that some mods disagreed with, as leaders, when it was necessary. You're right that an admin should be part of the team, but they are still the head of that team and they need to be respected as such.

what worked for you and sachy doesn't work for everyone else. sachy helped out with cheating investigations and did a lot of reports, so she worked with everyone in that regard. her exerting her authority doesn't really make her that authoritarian. i wasnt a mod when you were an admin but i'd imagine you were the same way

deletedalmost 10 years

satan says

Renaldo says

bernin says

kill all angsty teens

i'm listening to simple plan because my life is a nightmare and the moderators are not fair

i'm just a kid

Life is a nightmare. Nobody cares, cause I'm all alone.

MeIody

almost 10 years

projectmatt says

Renaldo says

bernin says

kill all angsty teens

i'm listening to simple plan because my life is a nightmare and the moderators are not fair

my parents made me take out the trash yesterday life is so unfair i can't WAIT to move out

Matt irl

deletedalmost 10 years

it's really hard to be a bad moderator honestly as long you have a decent moral compass and understand the rules. being run-of-the-mill is quite manageable and while im not saying names, i would say that there is far too many mods who fit in that category simply because they reserve themselves or try to stay unnoticed due to a fear of community backlash, which they aren't all to blame for feeling that way.

deletedalmost 10 years

simple plan was pretty cool

Renaldo

almost 10 years

projectmatt says

Renaldo says

at the very least, moving towards this starts with mods who act professionally when dealing with complaints and try to spin it into something constructive (honestly most if not all of the mods do this or are capable of this). Again, people make a sport out of trolling mods so this is difficult.

That's the problem though. It feels so counter productive to professionally address the constant complaint threads that say "moderators are the WORST, they can all DIE". In general, attempting to address them professionally only leads to more mockery.

It's a problem because the community doesn't want to show any kind of respect to the moderators and as such, the moderators feel little incentive to treat situations like they should. It's an unfortunate situation where positive reinforcement and constructive criticism would radically solve the problem, but neither side is willing to budge.

Yeah, you're right - I mean I used discretion. If someone was clearly complaining as trollbait and didn't have any substance, I didn't take them as seriously as say someone who had been legitimately wronged and was pissed, but couldn't describe their feelings in any way other than "i hate the mods"

projectmatt

almost 10 years

Renaldo says

bernin says

kill all angsty teens

i'm listening to simple plan because my life is a nightmare and the moderators are not fair

my parents made me take out the trash yesterday life is so unfair i can't WAIT to move out

Satan

almost 10 years

Renaldo says

bernin says

kill all angsty teens

i'm listening to simple plan because my life is a nightmare and the moderators are not fair

i'm just a kid

projectmatt

almost 10 years

Renaldo says

at the very least, moving towards this starts with mods who act professionally when dealing with complaints and try to spin it into something constructive (honestly most if not all of the mods do this or are capable of this). Again, people make a sport out of trolling mods so this is difficult.

That's the problem though. It feels so counter productive to professionally address the constant complaint threads that say "moderators are the WORST, they can all DIE". In general, attempting to address them professionally only leads to more mockery.

It's a problem because the community doesn't want to show any kind of respect to the moderators and as such, the moderators feel little incentive to treat situations like they should. It's an unfortunate situation where positive reinforcement and constructive criticism would radically solve the problem, but neither side is willing to budge.

Renaldo

almost 10 years

just kidding the mods overall are really great

Renaldo

almost 10 years

bernin says

kill all angsty teens

i'm listening to simple plan because my life is a nightmare and the moderators are not fair

deletedalmost 10 years

And where would you put Sacha and I, Shacky? Because both of us would step in and make decisions that some mods disagreed with, as leaders, when it was necessary. You're right that an admin should be part of the team, but they are still the head of that team and they need to be respected as such.

bernin

almost 10 years

kill all angsty teens

deletedalmost 10 years

Renaldo says

projectmatt says

I'm pretty confident that if a larger percent of the community embraced constructive criticism and positive reinforcement that the incentive and overall work ethic would be 200% higher.

this is challenging when most of the user base is made up of angsty teens in who play a social game competitively and try to score e-girls simultaneously. There are a lot of big egos on this site.

hilarious yet sadly true

Satan

almost 10 years

Renaldo says

people make a sport out of trolling mods so this is difficult.

couldn't have put it better myself

Renaldo

almost 10 years

projectmatt says

I'm pretty confident that if a larger percent of the community embraced constructive criticism and positive reinforcement that the incentive and overall work ethic would be 200% higher.

this is challenging when most of the user base is made up of angsty teens in who play a social game competitively and try to score e-girls simultaneously. There are a lot of big egos on this site.

at the very least, moving towards this starts with mods who act professionally when dealing with complaints and try to spin it into something constructive (honestly most if not all of the mods do this or are capable of this). Again, people make a sport out of trolling mods so this is difficult.

Sims

almost 10 years

authoritarian was probably a poor word choice. what i was/am trying to say is that dan worked with the mods, while it felt like vancy made the mods work for him. i'm trying to use this management perspective because i think being an admin is a lot like being a manager, and a huge part of being a manager is keeping a healthy atmosphere without having a "higher-than-thou" authoritative attitude