Look, I'm not going to make a big stink over this but I really think this game should be refunded https://epicmafia.com/report/111846 . I think the mods made a wrong decision. It happens sometimes, I get it. He literally blew autowin, and I just don't think it's fair that if you earn a win for the town and someone messes it up by refusing to pay attention, you don't get your win and you have to play again. It's even more unfair when you actually get a loss instead.
An ISP violation isn't exactly steep, and I definitely agree that the rules on refunds need to be changed. Do I think he needs to be punished? No. He was a newer player and it's not like he was trying to lose. Should it be refunded? Absolutely and objectively. Ideally, I would be given my win.
deletedover 10 years
it's not just that apuleio forgot keri's claim, it's also that he didn't at all consider ape's claim with an alive hooker. i'm not saying it's a matter of what he "should've" done, but it's hard to believe that he was really actively engaged in the game when all he did was ask for a cross.
Apulei contributed sufficiently and was attempting to win. Forgetting that somebody told you something or not thinking about the "right" thing isn't what you could logically call negligence, but it's probably for the best to debate it in private.
deletedover 10 years
Maybe it's time to update the rules on refunding then. Even though it doesn't exactly follow a circumstance word for word from the rules, this deserves a refund. In my opinion it doesn't deserve to be a violation, but it's pretty obvious that this was going to be a win. They deserve the refund and Apuleio needs to be more careful. I think refunds are too dependent on the rules than the incidents themselves.
deletedover 10 years
well i mean, apuleio gave little to no thought over the fact that hooker was alive and there was an unhooked cop meanwhile his n1 mason claimed cop to him.
to me, imho, that seems a little like ISP by negligence. just honestly tbh.
deletedover 10 years
Thank you very much, you have restored my faith in the mod team. And I may have slightly exaggerated "earning it" but I did contribute to it and my contention stands.
"Violation may also be applied if a user causes a loss due to negligence from a lack of game-related effort (but not just from negligence alone)."
It was obvious that he was putting in game related effort. He just failed to remember a detail and though it sucks that your autowin was lost, it doesn't justify a punishment.
deletedover 10 years
as someone who just personally read the game in <5 minutes, i think it is pretty blatantly ISP by negligence and also deserves a refund. just imho honestly.
i'll make a thread about it in mod forums :-)
"i earned that autowin" you died n2 bub O_O
deletedover 10 years
I see where you are coming from projectmatt. Try to see where I am coming from. Keri and I earned that autowin, we deserved a win. Even a refund is pretty unfair, because I could still lose the game. Not even giving me a refund seems downright ridiculous. I earned my win.
deletedover 10 years
But Loreli tells me that this is literally what the violation was made for. I'm not saying he ISP'd, as in he did not contribute. I am not saying he did not attempt to win, as in he gamethrew. I am saying that he ISP'd by negligence, which means that he blew autowin by being negligent (Which he objectively did.)
He was contributing and attempting to win. Forgetting about a detail doesn't qualify as negligence.
deletedover 10 years
This is a chance for the current moderation team to prove that they don't have their collective heads shoved firmly up their like past moderation teams, and instead prove that they are a moderation team capable of having a cogent and lucid dialogue regarding a possible mistake on their part, and should it be decided that it was indeed a mistake, prove that they are capable of maturely rectifying their mistakes.
deletedover 10 years
That kind of malignant bureaucracy is absolutely harmful to the site. If a wrong decision was made, the moderators should do their best to correct that decision, especially when the game in regard could decide the round. If I do get a "You can't appeal an appeal" that's fine I guess, but I think most reasonable people can see that this was, in fact, a refundable situation. Keri and I earned autowin and it was blown by someone who didn't pay attention. That is what ISP by negligence exists for, so that games like these can be refunded and runners don't have to suffer a loss instead of a win they earned due to incompetence.
deletedover 10 years
Sadly, I'm pretty sure it's going to turn into the "You can't appeal and appeal" verdict and it won't matter.
deletedover 10 years
Loreli tells me that situations like these are literally what the ISP by negligence violation was made for, so can this please be looked at one more time?
