Epicmafia

deletedover 10 years

yeah well you're dumb

pranay7744

over 10 years

mw should be suspended. and meta is totally different from honest meta and meta abuse.

bronto is the biggest idiot

Arcbell

over 10 years

It's not. There is no easy solution to meta-gaming problems in mafia on EM. I'm trying to show a solution doesn't exist.

deletedover 10 years

I'm having trouble following you Arcbell. What about anything you're saying is a solution to the metagame problems?

Steven

over 10 years

Arcbell says

All you're doing is taking the subjectivity out of the rules and putting it into the definition of "game information set"

I do not understand what you mean by this but you're the one that is putting your own view of things. Meta gaming is a well-established term and includes information about the people you are playing against or with. Meta isn't illegal and is in fact very useful, but there is a line drawn

Arcbell

over 10 years

KyIe says

oh well metagaming and a metagame are two different things.

Or devising meta-games I suppose, but that definition isn't useful here at all.

Arcbell

over 10 years

KyIe says

oh well metagaming and a metagame are two different things.

Not really. Metagaming is playing a metagame.

deletedover 10 years

oh well metagaming and a metagame are two different things.

deletedover 10 years

hollywood illusions is an even worse setup than i thought it would be.

Arcbell

over 10 years

All you're doing is taking the subjectivity out of the rules and putting it into the definition of "game information set"

Steven

over 10 years

Arcbell says

Steven says

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming

"In simple terms, it is the use of out-of-game information or resources to affect one's in-game decisions".

There is no "out of game information" to mafia (existing prior to the start of the game) since the information defined as part of the game is everything the players know at the start of the game, and everything they learn from within the game over its course. Otherwise you'd be forced to call knowledge of the English language "meta-game" information. I mean if you want to define the game that way then fine, EVERYTHING BUT VOTES IS META, but that's not a fruitful way to define information that's part of the game of mafia.

The information defined as part of the game is the information that is essential to the games purpose: being able to communicate being part of it.

Knowing whether or not the person that FoSes you is an expert mafia player is out-of-game information.

deletedover 10 years

Arcbell what are your personal thoughts on Skippy's run and these meta abuse accusations?

deletedover 10 years

The first was to Emma, and the second was because I decided your explanation was better.

Steven

over 10 years

I have no idea who you're responding or what you're talking about Howl, just in case you're talking to me

Arcbell

over 10 years

Steven says

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming

"In simple terms, it is the use of out-of-game information or resources to affect one's in-game decisions".

There is no "out of game information" to mafia (existing prior to the start of the game) since the information defined as part of the game is everything the players know at the start of the game, and everything they learn from within the game over its course. Otherwise you'd be forced to call knowledge of the English language "meta-game" information. I mean if you want to define the game that way then fine, EVERYTHING BUT VOTES IS META, but that's not a fruitful way to define information that's part of the game of mafia.

deletedover 10 years

Back to intent.

Steven

over 10 years

EmmerrLouise says

Steven says

EmmerrLouise says

Arcbell says

What a meta-game is not: using information you know about a player from outside the game in order to win.

Is this not OGI?

It is outside game influence but it's not OGI as in the rule. It is allowed

I was p sure OGI stood for "outside game influence" so how is one allowed but its acronym is not?

The name of the rule is more general than what the rule actually covers.

Spilling water accidentally on your computer would be an outside game influence on the game for example, but it is not OGI (as in the rule)

deletedover 10 years

One occurs in real-time and the other does not.

EmmerrLouise

over 10 years

Steven says

EmmerrLouise says

Arcbell says

What a meta-game is not: using information you know about a player from outside the game in order to win.

Is this not OGI?

It is outside game influence but it's not OGI as in the rule. It is allowed