I regret to inform you that I will be disabling the competition from Training Lobby after trophies are given out for this round.
Almost every round since its inception, there has been a major cheating investigation in the Training Round, some people have gotten away with it, and others have not. Participation has also waned considerably since its inception.
This does not mean the competition will be disabled permanently, but I will be disabling it for the time being. I'm hoping everyone can reconsider their actions and understand that we work very hard to keep the rounds clean, and it's simply becoming too much work for us to manage in addition to the Comp Lobby investigations (which are surprisingly less frequent).
Many of you who have won trophies in the Training competition or come close should strongly consider playing in Comp Lobby, the competition is more consistent there and the mod team is better equipped to handle issues there since competition is treated more seriously. You're all good enough to play there as well.
There is no current timetable for its return, but I will be disabling it after the round ends.
Thank you for your cooperation and understanding, I am sorry it has come to this. I honestly liked the round and encouraging people to try new setups, but there have been a lot of problems associated with it so we need to give it a rest for now.
I'm a comp player predominantly, we're not all terrible people. :(
Splitting up moderation makes modding as a whole less efficient, especially when Training gets way more reports and their reports are much easier to deal with since they're usually simpler. Comp reports are usually much more time consuming.
Training without an element of competitive play is boring. It's repetitive setups, no decent strategy and little skill involved (many setups are luck or naturally town/maf sided). Can Training have something competitive to it without a Competition? Maybe. But it needs something, and the comp we had was nearly it. As I've said though, different rewards/prizes etc. I don't need to repeat myself.
While a competition in both Training and Comp would indeed mean they're both competitive, the competition in Comp is very different and you know it. The type of player, the strats used, roles available, repercussions for good/bad play - it's a completely different environment to play IN, so no they wouldn't be the same at all.
There should 100% be a separate mod team committed only to training lobby. Me and others have said why this is a good idea.
I think you're missing the point. I'd join comp lobby tomorrow and stay there if the playerbase was different. The fact it's called a comp lobby is neither here nor there. It's the players, Bronto.
I actually didn't say to make both lobbies the same - I agree that's a bad idea, because it negates the point of having two lobbies.
The site won't implode, but is that really what it'd take for changes to be made? If so, it shouldn't be. Making changes is not as hard or time-consuming as it's being made out to be.
deletedover 10 years
everyone who has ever been good or cared has either left or is banned and everything is autism 101
It's not like the site's going to implode if it isn't resolved immediately though. Yeah, there are definitely issues, but they take time to resolve and it's impossible to please everyone.
I know "That's the way it's always been done" is a terrible excuse when asking for change, but you have to ask if the changes are worthwhile. Making both lobbies the same is counter-inuitive to their purposes.
If closed roles became a thing in Training Lobby then Sandbox wouldn't have a purpose. No one seems to care that they're the only place with Closed Roles.
As if this makes EM a good website? Just because something has been done incorrectly for a long time, doesn't mean it's okay. "It's always been like this" isn't justification for all the issues with EM right now.
It really is as dire as I make it out to be. If I was content with playing endless games of Classic or having my games ruined by untrained players (despite being in a lobby for training), but I feel I cannot play in comp because that has it's own problems, it is very dire, and I am not alone feeling this way.
"Honest" meta is specifically for people who say stuff like "I will never say/do X as mafia, thus I am town" and is believed across games and known. There was an account who never told lies, (Iwillneverlie or something), and he would answer yes if he was town, and dodge the question if he wasn't. Made games with him ridiculous. Meta abuse is knowing how someone ticks so well that you can read them flawlessly in any game, or simply never scumread them, etc. It's a problem across a lot of peoples' runs who run together.
If you don't think there's heavy usage of meta in Training Lobby, you'd be mistaken. Classic tables are much different than the competitive ones.
The situation isn't nearly as dire as you make it out to be, Emmerr. The site has run like this for quite a while (Training without a competition, mods that are comp centric).
Nowhere is 'safe' from it, but it isn't nearly as relied upon as it is in Comp. If anything, Training players are a lot more paranoid and weary of people who try and use meta whereas in comp players seem to just accept it.
In fact, I would go as far as to say you get scumread like hell if you try and use it in training. Comp, however, is a different story.
Maybe you're right about that. But to an extent, because from what I've seen lately training isn't safe from honest meta either. I understand your point though.
I absolutely can, because although some people will attempt to use meta in training (note, not 'honest'), rare is the game that other players will believe and rely on said meta. In comp, meta has become absolute and heavily relied upon to the point where it's become OGI. Outsiders to comp are unaware of the meta and it puts them in a difficult position in terms of playing games because it stops being about skill and strategic manoeuvres - something that puts a lot of people off.
This is true - I am generally pessimistic about the site right now because the site is in a very dire situation. While a 'unified EM' would be lovely, it's not going to happen. Some admin have serious issues accepting the facts and continue to run the site in utter denial; letting problems get out of hand and improvements not being made.
The site needs someone to say "this website is awful", identify why and then collectively solve the issues. Admin can bury their heads in the sand and just hope that it all works out, but it needs decisive action.
deletedover 10 years
Yeah but you can't deny the existence of honest meta in training too. I personally go to comp when I feel like playing seriously and just investing myself into the game (which is quite rare).
Comp generally sucks. The use of 'honest' meta (idrc what anyone says - it's ogi), the effect of friendships and 'cliques' on games, site politics effecting games.
It's certainly not a nice place to be. At least training is a bit more chill.
deletedover 10 years
The optimal way to proceed here depends on what each and every person thinks this site's lobbies are all about. Emma makes a good point when she states how training has failed in terms of "training", and I think things were looking up when it had its own competition. And no, Satan, I haven't ran on training so easy trophies isn't why I don't want to see this gone. It's just for the better good of both training and comp lobbies, because it TRAINS those who want to go to comp and spices things up (rather than just countless multi/classic/cocos games).
In a sense, a lot of what Emma has been saying (though it may look quite pessimistic) is for the good of the site. There HAS to be changes made in regards to lobby/site mods, and you can't always be so positive about it because this site isn't exactly in a situation worth being positive about. Please look at things from different angles to find all the flaws.
deletedover 10 years
Bronto is really delusional
deletedover 10 years
It isn't really about comp bias so much as not wanting to be 'on the grid'. A majority of people don't want media attention. The don't want the world judging them and making presuppositions about them. Look at the Round discussion threads and you see half the comp community talking about this player or that player and how they gamethrew or played a bad game here and there.
It's the negative and aggressive attitudes, not bias, that training doesn't like. Comp lobby just isn't "friendly" competition.
I agree, but I wouldn't say it dominates how the game is played. Comp is definitely a more close knit community, but the people who play games regularly and post on the forums a lot aren't really the same people anyway, but it's easy to mix them up since they all fall under Comp. This would also change greatly if more people played there.
There are similar circles in Training Lobby. You could see it throughout this round, people with vested interests playing for or against their friends subtly. It's not hard to see.
