It's Balanced You Just Suck

 
 
 
Day Start and Must Lynch means the Gallis is clear and should out, If the Sniper shoots before the Gallis claims they're not thinking whatsoever.

If the Sniper shoots the Politician they have lost the game and may have dragged the Politician down with him.

A Town aligned Politician should always try for mislynch as it always improves their chances to win, Inversely a Mafia aligned Politician is very vulnerable to a town mislynch if it isn't the final lynch.

As long as the Gallis is alive the Politician and Sniper can nolynch to force their alignment to ether side, This should be done for the side that offers the Politician more points which is Mafia.

If anyone claims Politician Day 1 before the Sniper shoots then everyone should lynch them instead of the Gallis, This is nether good or bad for the Town or Sniper.

If the Sniper shoots Gallis everyone massclaims and a lynch between Snoop counterclaims occurs, If the real Snoop is lynched then who wins will be chosen by Politician alignment which gives Town a 2nd chance.

If Politician claims when Gallis is shot then everyone including Sniper should lynch them, As the Town will lock votes with Politician and Sniper thus nolynching forever. Making the Politician useless to the sniper.

If the Snoop is shot then the Politician should claim Judge alongside the Sniper to try and get the Town to mislynch. Trying to lock votes to figure out who is Politician or Sniper works but can backfire with Gallis Pop. The Sniper is doomed if the Politician is lynched after Snoop is shot.

If the Judge is shot then the Sniper and Politician regardless of alignment out themselves and lynch the Snoop who should be counterclaiming Sniper now.

If Sniper doesn't shoot Day 1 then Day 2 the Sniper must fake a Snoop report, If ether report nether clears or confirms the other of having a gun then Town lynches between the 2 Snoop claims. The Judge and Politician need to counterclaim each other to avoid being shot.

When the Snoop and Judge dead from ether gunshot or mislynch in any order and the game is down to Sniper, Politician, and Gallis. The Sniper and Politician can lynch the Gallis until the Politician is Mafia aligned allowing both to win points when the Politician selfvotes or pops the Gallis.

The Politician doesn't get a win notification without points, So without points the Politician loses all incentive to fight for any side completely throwing the balance of the setup. Politicians who don't side with whoever offers more points when they have the choice are gamethrowing this setup.
Shwartz99
over 9 years
So ready to play this ranked
MasterCheif
over 9 years
Must have skills to win as mafia
MasterCheif
over 9 years
wow it was blacklisted, mods don't like skill setups I guess
SirDude
about 9 years
https://epicmafia.com/topic/73059

This is why the setup is blacklisted.

"This setup is bad."
"Why is the setup bad?"
"Because it's a pointfarm."
"How is it a pointfarm?"
"Because the winrate is unbalanced."
"Why is the winrate unbalanced?"
"Because the setup is bad."
"Why is the setup bad?"
"..."
Froce
about 9 years
http://pastebin.com/j9vuxzJ5 - idk
deletedabout 9 years
add a civilian remove snoop will make this more balanced
SirDude
about 9 years
I see how adding an auto-win option for the Sniper might make sense, But wouldn't it make more sense to replace the Judge with the Civilian?

Actually I'm not sure what would be best or if a civilian would even be fun/balanced/RNG.
deletedabout 9 years
snoop can see who has gun so it can become autoloss for sniper pretty quickly in a set up that's already hard to win as it, but it's just my opinion
deletedabout 9 years
also adding a civilian forces town to not out leading to a scumhunt
iMafia
about 9 years
>winrate for the 2 top players is even

19/28 = 68%
7/11 = 64%

Point farm as there's 80% chance to land a villager and a there's 78% chance to win as town.

(0.8*0.78)+(0.22*0.2) = 67% average win rate proven with the top 2 win rate.

I see more ways sniper auto losing than winning

Town just has to mass claim d1 and politician has to be honest regardless of alignment and they can root out sniper within a CC.

Sniper can't cc judge/poli cause hammer test.

Sniper can't cc gaillis cause gaillis doesn't die even if sniper wins the cc (surprise!)

Which leaves snoop. Sniper has to successfully win a snoop CC, shoot judge/gaillis and still have to depend on politician alignment. Considering a random vote that leaves us with sniper win rate of 0.5*0.5 = 25% (gasp)

TL;DR of this setup : Politician
deletedabout 9 years
If you add civilian it gives sniper more of a chance of autowinning and forces town to scumhunt rather than claim.
SirDude
about 9 years
I'm not sure you're calculating the winrate for sniper correctly as both the sniper and politician have an equal chance of losing on the counterclaim vote.

The politician can ensure he wins if the town mislynchs on the counterclaim vote, If the gallis is alive then he can choose to side with sniper for the extra points.
iMafia
about 9 years
Politician doesn't have to counter claim, he just needs to vote according to alignment on d2,d3 to win.
SirDude
about 9 years
I mean when the Sniper counterclaims Snoop or Politician, The Politician has a 50% chance to lose on that lynch due to alignment.

That means the Politician has reason to mislynch town as it lets him pick who wins purely on his alignment. If he's lynched before the Sniper shoots then he can't do that.

https://epicmafia.com/setup/540619
Why does this setup have a "balanced" average winrate by competitive standards but the average winrate for top players is 66.54%?
SirDude
over 8 years
Finally wrote a comprehensive strategy that has barely been put to use and already it's neg bombed by a mod again.
SirDude
over 8 years
-20 negbombed by a mod again after recovering from previous -20 negbomb.
MasterCheif
over 8 years
mods are really annoying
MachiKyouko
over 7 years
When are you going to admit this setup is a town pointfarm trash setup
SirDude
over 7 years
I'll admit it's a Town pointfarm when Snipers stop hipfiring immediately D1 before Gallis even claims, Start fakclaiming Snoop reports D2 if they don't shoot D1, And Politicians realize that if the Gallis is alive they can force a win with the Sniper for more points should the town mislynch.

This setup is probably just too deep/complex for a 5 man setup, Community attitude also contributes to the lack of basic strategy.

No one understands that the Politician will inherently balance out the winrate on this setup as a Politician who plays for the side that offers more points regardless of their immediate alignment will win more points more often.

This setup is made specifically to maximize that, If there are no points then the Politician has no reason to play for the Mafia D1. ruining the setup.
MachiKyouko
over 7 years
Noone gives a toss about points. Also the fact mafia get so many points should tell you how "balanced" and "deep' this setup is. Lmfao.
MachiKyouko
over 7 years
Like dude you're 5/18 as sniper. That's sub 33% winrate. ON YOUR OWN SETUP THAT YOU SUPPOSEDLY KNOW ALL THE STRATS TO. ~_~
SirDude
over 7 years
I didn't know all of the strategies of the setup when I created it, Additionally many players get confused by the Politician.

Show a setup with only 5 players that is as complex as this setup.
primeElephant
about 7 years
75% town winrate rofl dude this setup's trash
primeElephant
about 7 years
it's not complex or deep its just a town autowin setup with a poli coinflip and even if poli sniper sides its not maf autowin whereas if they townside it is town auto. the imbalance in points means the setup is imbalanced and broken its not a freaking feature lol
SirDude
about 7 years
When 75% of Snipers hip-fire immediately day 1 and if they're lucky enough to not hit the Politician (The only way to auto-lose as Sniper) they give up counterclaiming a role because they think the Politician counts as Mafia/Town instead of 3rd party, Should they really be surprised that they lost?

In a perfect world where everyone followed the optimal strategy it would be a balanced setup, No setup is balanced if it's consistently played by people who never even seen the setup before. Additionally the Politician loses 50% of the time when Town wins so the winrate is misleading.

Otherwise please explain to me why hip-firing immediately day 1 before the Gallies even claims is the best strategy for the Sniper to take?
Or better yet give me a scenario where the Sniper loses through no fault of their own and I will logically explain to you why you are wrong.