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Thoughts on Nike / Kaepernick

shady12
almost 7 years

I was commenting on the other thread, but then my comment grew out of hand and over the character limit for a response. Actually, I'll add some links since I'm going in on it I guess.These are my takes on the various topics:

Nike made a business decision - they signed Kaepernick for publicity. Imagine thinking a corporation like Nike would do anything for social justice. I don't have evidence for this take, but c'mon now.

Kaepernick sacrificed his NFL career in favor of protesting police brutality against African Americans. He had the talent level to be signed as a quarterback. He was not given a workout by any of the 32 NFL teams as a free agent. Seattle called him to bring him in, but only on the grounds that he stopped kneeling. He told them he would not, and here we are.

Kaepernick is making more money now than if he had not protested and finished his NFL career. He would have been paid as a back-up quarterback and probably could have played for 2-5 more years. I assume his Nike deal is much larger, plus he can leverage this for merchandise sales and speaking deals. If you want to use this to dispute the idea that he "sacrificed everything," go ahead. I think that's a fair point to make.

If you disagree with Kaepernick's cause, I think you need to study racial injustice in America more closely. If the police brutality doesn't do it for you, I would suggest to you to research injustice in the prison system & the War on Drugs or the lingering repercussions of slavery & historic injustice to African Americans leading to inequality in generational economics. I'm willing to share resources on this subject - I think it's very crucial for Americans and everyone to understand just how deep some of these cuts are.

If you disagree with Kaepernick's method of protest, I can understand, but please don't misrepresent the protest itself. I think all of the NFL players made it very, very clear that they were not protesting America, or the military, or the flag itself. I certainly don't understand the take that standing for the national anthem at a sporting event is some sort of sacred rite. Players weren't even on the field for it until 2009. Protests are supposed to cause discomfort. A comfortable protest is not an effective one, and it certainly is Colin's right to demonstrate. It was also the NFL's prerogative to not give him a job. I think that's what gives Colin's story some credibility - he did know he would face repercussions and he chose to do it anyway. I don't think you can say he knew he would get this big endorsement deal out of it.

That's just my takes. Thank you and have a nice day.

Rydia
almost 7 years

MeetTerry says

so white people cause black people today to have kids out of wedlock? How do white people blatantly cause black kids to not finish high school? White people cause blacks to not get jobs?


you've missed my point again, I'm claiming that historical racism has created the conditions for black people to, say, have kids out of wedlock, live in communities where high schools are poorly funded and violent- you could even argue that before recently, and still in some parts of the states, managerial roles are more likely to hire people with white-sounding names. there are actually some good studies on this that you can look up for yourself.


MeetTerry says

This is peak identity politics. Individuals are able to make their own decisions. If you commit crime, have kids out of wedlock, exit high school, etc., it's all on you. Ask a black high school drop out why they dropped out, and they're not going to say it was because of white people.


Individuals cannot be removed from the environment they live in. People negotiate their own experience and meaning based on what is around them and the ideas present. The individuality- which is really just radical agency- that you are proposing exists does not exist since we are social creatures who live with other social creatures in similar places.

Of course they aren't going to say they dropped out because of white people, why would they?
MeetTerry
almost 7 years

Rydia says


MeetTerry says

Three things everyone can do to join the middle class:

1. Finish high school

2. Don't have kids out of wedlock.

3. Have a job (literally any job)

If these three things are satisfied, there is a 76% chance you will enter middle class from the very bottom of poverty. Only 2% of people who do those above things stay in poverty.


1. Are there any reasons why a black person might be less likely to finish high school? High schools aren't all the same, some receive less funding, others in poorer communities can be violent and threatening places, etc.

2. Conservative meme that i'm going to completely ignore

3. What about areas where attaining a job is difficult? A small job market? Wages where upward mobility is impossible or below a living wage?

>if these three things are satisfied, there is a 76% chance you will enter middle class

who is responsible for satisfying them in areas where it is increasingly difficult to satisfy them?


The Brookings Institute, a largely liberal thinktank, was behind the entire studies. Other thinktanks came to the same result as well.

Recent labor reports show job markets at an all time high, with some of the biggest gains in non-Asian minority employment.

Like I said, those three things will get people out of poverty. I agree with your point on high schools, and I think one of the best solutions is the school-choice system, which will help eliminate some of the worst schools for students.
Rydia
almost 7 years
you can perform a statistical analysis, a t-test, ANOVAs, and you can write up some interesting analyses of your numbers, but you don't stop on a positive result, you need to understand the implications and limitations of your study design and results.

That's part and parcel of having a dialogue about your work, here are my numbers, here's what we can imply from them, here are some citations that might help us understand why we got the results we did, etc

brainlet: i have a significant positive relationship between x and y thank you for reading

woke: i have a significant positive relationship between x and y. to help us understand these results we might require recourse to z to help us explain this relationship...
MeetTerry
almost 7 years

Rydia says

why do they commit more 'crime'?..Is the truth that "black people simply commit more crimes"? if so, why? why does crime happen it the first place? I'll grant you that those communities see more violence, but the question i'm attempting to answer is WHY. It's one thing to say "blacks and hispanics account for 99% of all shootings [sic]", and okay, yeah, but now what? The point is to understand why that violence is occurring, you can point out things all you want but you're not understanding anything beyond "therefore, black people are more violent". You should be trying to explain why.


No, your main point was that stop-and-frisk was a racist phenomenon. I said already that in NYC, 99% of all shootings were done by blacks and hispanics.

Via stop-and-frisk, do you think it makes sense that whites should be stopped 50% and blacks/hispanics should be stopped 50% of the time? Or do you think it makes sense why blacks/hispanics get stopped more statistically?

At the end of the day, stop-and-frisk greatly reduced crimes. These communities at risk of crime need to be policed more. Since NYC removed stop-and-frisk, crime has materially gone up.

Being harder on criminals lowers crime. Chicago and NYC are prime example of where policing has gone soft and number of arrests have gone significantly lower, resulting in more crime.
MeetTerry
almost 7 years

Rydia says

That's not the point, the point is that what your great-grandparents did to another's great-grandparents affected their community and CREATED the conditions for "criminal" behaviour to occur and therefore the increased criminalisation and incarceration of members of that community. Crime doesn't exist in a vacuum, there is a REASON it occurs.


so white people cause black people today to have kids out of wedlock? How do white people blatantly cause black kids to not finish high school? White people cause blacks to not get jobs?

This is peak identity politics. Individuals are able to make their own decisions. If you commit crime, have kids out of wedlock, exit high school, etc., it's all on you. Ask a black high school drop out why they dropped out, and they're not going to say it was because of white people.
Rydia
almost 7 years

MeetTerry says

Show me examples of modern-day oppression against blacks right now in the US. The US has been the most tolerant of all nations in history of mankind.


You're completely missing my point, beyond your crass bootlicking. I'm claiming that, say, Jim Crow, or in fact America's entire history of systemic racism has created the conditions for violence, wealth inequality, low-pay, etc, in the present day. You're completely trapped in your own bubble. Pointing things out like you're doing like everything you need to know about them is on the surface is completely ignoring "why" these things are happening.


MeetTerry says

mental gymnastics are real


imagine thinking that wanting to understand phenomena is mental gymnastics lmfao
Vapid
almost 7 years

Rydia says


MeetTerry says

Three things everyone can do to join the middle class:

1. Finish high school

2. Don't have kids out of wedlock.

3. Have a job (literally any job)

If these three things are satisfied, there is a 76% chance you will enter middle class from the very bottom of poverty. Only 2% of people who do those above things stay in poverty.


1. Are there any reasons why a black person might be less likely to finish high school? High schools aren't all the same, some receive less funding, others in poorer communities can be violent and threatening places, etc.

2. Conservative meme that i'm going to completely ignore

3. What about areas where attaining a job is difficult? A small job market? Wages where upward mobility is impossible or below a living wage?

>if these three things are satisfied, there is a 76% chance you will enter middle class

who is responsible for satisfying them in areas where it is increasingly difficult to satisfy them?


Black people on average care less about important things like education or work.
Rydia
almost 7 years

MeetTerry says

Three things everyone can do to join the middle class:

1. Finish high school

2. Don't have kids out of wedlock.

3. Have a job (literally any job)

If these three things are satisfied, there is a 76% chance you will enter middle class from the very bottom of poverty. Only 2% of people who do those above things stay in poverty.


1. Are there any reasons why a black person might be less likely to finish high school? High schools aren't all the same, some receive less funding, others in poorer communities can be violent and threatening places, etc.

2. Conservative meme that i'm going to completely ignore

3. What about areas where attaining a job is difficult? A small job market? Wages where upward mobility is impossible or below a living wage?

>if these three things are satisfied, there is a 76% chance you will enter middle class

who is responsible for satisfying them in areas where it is increasingly difficult to satisfy them?
Rydia
almost 7 years

MeetTerry says

Fighting over what your great-grandparents did to another's great-grandparents never solves anything and will exacerbate the issue. No social issue has ever been solved like that. People today haven't voted for Jim Crow laws or bought slaves.


That's not the point, the point is that what your great-grandparents did to another's great-grandparents affected their community and CREATED the conditions for "criminal" behaviour to occur and therefore the increased criminalisation and incarceration of members of that community. Crime doesn't exist in a vacuum, there is a REASON it occurs.


MeetTerry says

It's because blacks commit more crime at the end of the day. Is it because of white people that black people commit half of all murders since 1980?


why do they commit more 'crime'? are there any factors as to why they might be prosecuted more and charged more which would be reflected in a statistical analysis? Is the truth that "black people simply commit more crimes"? if so, why? why does crime happen it the first place?


MeetTerry says

Numerous economists have analyzed decades of data on crime by race. The resounding agreement from them has been that stop-and-frisk is not racist. In New York, blacks and hispanics account for 99% of all shootings. I can easily go into my academic journals and find numerous studies on this.


I'll grant you that those communities see more violence, but the question i'm attempting to answer is WHY. It's one thing to say "blacks and hispanics account for 99% of all shootings [sic]", and okay, yeah, but now what? The point is to understand why that violence is occurring, you can point out things all you want but you're not understanding anything beyond "therefore, black people are more violent". You should be trying to explain why.
MeetTerry
almost 7 years

Rydia says

The truth of the matter is that black communities and the subjects within have been kicked around and relegated to submissive discourse historically. That's why people refer to 'systemic' problems, because that culture of racism existed, and in some forms still exist in institutions and forms of discourse throughout the states and other western countries today. There's no black hegemony falsifying statistics to make them seem like the victims of a system that has historically and presently neglected their communities, and there's no "black" gene that predisposes "black" bodies to violent behaviour.


Show me examples of modern-day oppression against blacks right now in the US. The US has been the most tolerant of all nations in history of mankind.


Rydia says

garbage on "neoliberal individualism"


mental gymnastics are real
MeetTerry
almost 7 years
this entire comment is hot garbage


Rydia says

Pushing the blame onto individual people is to ignore the past and how it affects the present.


Fighting over what your great-grandparents did to another's great-grandparents never solves anything and will exacerbate the issue. No social issue has ever been solved like that. People today haven't voted for Jim Crow laws or bought slaves.


Rydia says

It's not some kind of conspiracy theory that blacks are more likely to be stop and frisked, arrested and charged for a variety of different crimes (usually blue collar, victimless ones- i.e drug use). Their disproportionate incarceration is a statistical fact.


It's because blacks commit more crime at the end of the day. Is it because of white people that black people commit half of all murders since 1980?

Numerous economists have analyzed decades of data on crime by race. The resounding agreement from them has been that stop-and-frisk is not racist. In New York, blacks and hispanics account for 99% of all shootings. I can easily go into my academic journals and find numerous studies on this.


Rydia says


By suggesting that all of this is due to the shortcomings of individual black people is a complete contradiction and all you've done is effectively negate that communities of people actually exist.


Three things everyone can do to join the middle class:

1. Finish high school

2. Don't have kids out of wedlock.

3. Have a job (literally any job)

If these three things are satisfied, there is a 76% chance you will enter middle class from the very bottom of poverty. Only 2% of people who do those above things stay in poverty.
iChaotic
almost 7 years
With the cop that shot the person the problem is the cop KNEW the person beforehand.Also if your key doesn't work then it's not your fking apartment so why did she think it was her's in the first place if they key didn't work . She thought the burglar switched the lock and decided to keep the place. lmao but the bitc behind bars.
Vapid
almost 7 years

Volta says

imagine bumping a day old thread just to virtue signal


imagine being salty and trying to pass it off as if you dont care
Rydia
almost 7 years
if you can't seem to understand that seemingly private "individual" problems are usually reflective of wider, public issues, then everything i've just said will be completely lost on you
Rydia
almost 7 years
The Nike endorsement is a hard pill to swallow since they're responsible for a variety of human rights violations and the exploitation of labourers in poorer countries- it's a bit like when we found out that Beyonce's "this is what a feminist looks like" shirts were being stitched together by exploited workers in Mauritius.

While you can appreciate the sentiment of both and where its coming from, the fact of the matter is that Capital poisons everything.
Rydia
almost 7 years

MeetTerry says



the idea that the US is at fault for failing in society because it historically did some bad things is just refusal to accept fault for your own failures


Pushing the blame onto individual people is to ignore the past and how it affects the present. It's not some kind of conspiracy theory that blacks are more likely to be stop and frisked, arrested and charged for a variety of different crimes (usually blue collar, victimless ones- i.e drug use). Their disproportionate incarceration is a statistical fact. By suggesting that all of this is due to the shortcomings of individual black people is a complete contradiction and all you've done is effectively negate that communities of people actually exist.

The terms "criminal" and "criminality" are legal constructs, for a start, there's no "criminality" gene that determines whether or not you'll become a criminal. "Crime" and who gets determined to be a "crminal" is completely social in that respect.

The truth of the matter is that black communities and the subjects within have been kicked around and relegated to submissive discourse historically. That's why people refer to 'systemic' problems, because that culture of racism existed, and in some forms still exist in institutions and forms of discourse throughout the states and other western countries today. There's no black hegemony falsifying statistics to make them seem like the victims of a system that has historically and presently neglected their communities, and there's no "black" gene that predisposes "black" bodies to violent behaviour.

We only exist when another "I" notices us. It's the only way we can even be self-conscious. Neoliberal individualism is always reckless.
Nohacs
almost 7 years
Wow I never realized how liberal this forum was
MeetTerry
almost 7 years

Volta says


shady12 says

Our system is responsible for the higher criminality rate of African Americans because we put an extremely disproportionate rate of black people in prison.


lmao, the gymnastics on this one


actually tho

this is straight up passing the buck.

the idea that the US is at fault for failing in society because it historically did some bad things is just refusal to accept fault for your own failures
MeetTerry
almost 7 years
wat

Kaepernick was one of the lowest ranked QBs in the NFL. His football career was irrelevant.
Volta
almost 7 years
imagine bumping a day old thread just to virtue signal
Vapid
almost 7 years
Just goes to show that even if Conservatives claim to be rational, they're completely partisan f*cks in the end and would rather side with stupidity than concede a point that wouldn't even defeat their argument.
Vapid
almost 7 years
You'd rather believe an asinine story than admit that some people in authority can be bad?
Vapid
almost 7 years

SteelixMega says

@me responding to @EpicJest like this because my response was too long:

Paragraph 3:People think that he was shot for being black. She thought she was in danger because she believed someone broke into her apartment, and since she believed she had the right of defense within her property, she let the bullets fly. After she realized that she messed up, she did the right thing to try to fix the situation and get medical attention immediately. In that video tape, she was crying because she realized she killed an innocent man. She felt remorse for it because of a mistake on her behalf. Also, for those of you who don't realize it, cops shooting people is not with the intent kill, it is with the intent to stop any immediate danger that the officer or bystanders is/are in. I think she should be temporarily suspended because the law is on her side, and that she didn't fire with the intent to kill. at the most, she should just be fired so she could be prevented from doing that again. i don't think jail time is needed here.


You're actually being r*tarded af.

Someone is firing a gun without the realization of where they f*cking are? This is a cop for crying out loud, even if she was drunk, this doesn't seem plausible. It doesn't matter what a cops intents are when they kill an innocent person and it especially doesn't matter when they were being this f*cking stupid. These types of mistakes don't happen unless you're unfit to be a cop or on some sort of drug.
What likely happened was murder with crocodile tears.
Devante
almost 7 years
How does someone even enter ANOTHER persons apartment and not realize they're in a completely different place?

did she think this guy just took out all her sh*t and replaced it with pictures of him? lmao

this reminds me of a Dave Chapelle skit I heard a long time ago
Devante
almost 7 years

SteelixMega says


Paragraph 3:People think that he was shot for being black. She thought she was in danger because she believed someone broke into her apartment, and since she believed she had the right of defense within her property, she let the bullets fly. After she realized that she messed up, she did the right thing to try to fix the situation and get medical attention immediately. In that video tape, she was crying because she realized she killed an innocent man. She felt remorse for it because of a mistake on her behalf. Also, for those of you who don't realize it, cops shooting people is not with the intent kill, it is with the intent to stop any immediate danger that the officer or bystanders is/are in. I think she should be temporarily suspended because the law is on her side, and that she didn't fire with the intent to kill. at the most, she should just be fired so she could be prevented from doing that again. i don't think jail time is needed here.


First off, police in America are taught to shoot at center mass to KILL, not stop any immediate danger. If the officers were trained properly most unarmed shootings would result in tasers being drawn, or conflict descalation - not murder.

Second off, remove the race and their careers from this. You are seriously gonna say you don't think that someone who forcefully enters another persons dwelling and then, as an intruder shoots them doesn't deserve any criminal prosecution?

holy fk lmao