Epicmafia

Empathy

over 7 years

I've been thinking a lot about empathy, between my classes and things going on politically. Having or not having empathy is not necessarily a good or bad thing, it's just having the ability to share in someone else's emotions as well as understand them. Besides I find more people to be sympathetic than empathetic.

https://psychology-tools.com/empathy-quotient/

This is an empathy quotient test. It would be cool to see how empathetic or not empathetic the community is (:

My score: 70/80

p.s. at the end it talks about how an under 30 could be indicative of an autism spectrum disorder but please don't take that as any sort of diagnosis // happy test taking!

are you more sympathetic or empathetic or neither?

neither

sympathetic

empathetic

cub

over 7 years

Kaworu says

cub says

it was a single counterexample, because you said selflessness doesnt exist at all. it seems you want to revise your statement to "true selflessness where someone is empathetic to everyone without constraints does not exist"?

what's the difference between selflessness and "true selflessness"

and yes, i would stop anyone, strangers included, if i saw someone in danger within my reach in an instant. but! if it posed any danger to me, then i would hesitate. you can philosophize about whether it still makes the act selfless or not, if you want

if you put yourself first, it is not selfless

even if you do help someone, the fact that it's conditional on how much of an inconvenience it poses to yourself is still not selfless, but that's a different point to make

Kyanite

over 7 years

@floor I just felt that my point was really easy to counter

And if it was easy to counter what was the point of posting it

Sishen

over 7 years

deletedover 7 years

cub says

it was a single counterexample, because you said selflessness doesnt exist at all. it seems you want to revise your statement to "true selflessness where someone is empathetic to everyone without constraints does not exist"?

and yes, i would stop anyone, strangers included, if i saw someone in danger within my reach in an instant. but! if it posed any danger to me, then i would hesitate. you can philosophize about whether it still makes the act selfless or not, if you want

Floor

over 7 years

i already read that. kyanite

Kyanite

over 7 years

Selfnessless only occurs when you literally do not have a self aka you are dead

Existing is selfish; if people didn't offer resources to you, you wouldn't survive. The resources became about you because you exist. That's really it. Even if you were to be selfless about someone you were just allocating those resources that were yours to them, making them and you the selfish one.

There is no selflessness, in short.

cub

over 7 years

Kaworu says

im also bored and tired so
my opinion: selflessness does exist if you care about a person enough. counterexample to 'if someone does things for others, they're only doing because it feels good': i help my mom with chores and let her relax, even though i would much rather be doing something else, and my mother's opinion of me wouldn't change whether i helped or not, and i wouldnt feel guilty if i decided not to help. i do it simply because i care about her well-being. another example is in an instant where someone you care about trips, or is about to walk into traffic. you usually grab for them. theres no thinking about yourself in that moment, you're only trying to save the person because you care.

just thought i'd throw those examples in so you can think about them, but im not really invested in this discussion, so i probably wont say anymore

you said it yourself

i care about her well-being

you also specified "someone you care about" when mentioning stopping someone from tripping or walking into traffic

although i don't think you wouldn't stop anyone from tripping or walking into traffic because you'd just feel bad about doing nothing

but the point being: you care about them. why don't you care about others? why your mom and not someone else's mom? you wouldn't feel the same, it's because you feel good about helping someone who, in your mom's case, helped you throughout your life. you don't gain anything material like i said, but if it was truly selfless it wouldn't be limited to people you hold dear.

people close to you are

close to you

that kind of says it all: close to you

cub

over 7 years

Floor says

i think bdog's last post is how I'd justify it

it doesn't

why don't you answer for yourself

deletedover 7 years

im also bored and tired so
my opinion: selflessness does exist if you care about a person enough. counterexample to 'if someone does things for others, they're only doing because it feels good': i help my mom with chores and let her relax, even though i would much rather be doing something else, and my mother's opinion of me wouldn't change whether i helped or not, and i wouldnt feel guilty if i decided not to help. i do it simply because i care about her well-being. another example is in an instant where someone you care about trips, or is about to walk into traffic. you usually grab for them. theres no thinking about yourself in that moment, you're only trying to save the person because you care.

just thought i'd throw those examples in so you can think about them, but im not really invested in this discussion, so i probably wont say anymore

a few more thoughts: i wouldn't call altruism 'selfish', just because it implies that there was no desire to benefit others besides yourself at all. i dont think thats true. you could say the same thing for love. why do you love someone? is it only because you like the feeling of being in love? i personally cant answer that, but it might be helpful to think about. humans evolved to work with other humans to survive; caring for others is something that comes naturally to us, but it has to be taught. from then on, it doesnt matter if you started caring for selfish reasons or not; you're able to carry out selfless acts because you currently care. the positive reinforcement from helping others is inherent in us, because evolutionary it was necessary for survival, but its not the only motivator for 'empathy', or whatever you want to call it.

Floor

over 7 years

i think bdog's last post is how I'd justify it

deletedover 7 years

okay, i understand

cub

over 7 years

hey floor anything to say about the fact you never challenge your ideas yet tell other people who do that they're the ones who hate having their ideas challenged

i want to know how you justify that

cub

over 7 years

harodihg says

why do u care to type all of this on a public forum with people who either dont respect ur opnion, wont read what u say, or seemingly just dont like u. even if u find some people who will read all that and engage u in the manner that u want is everything else u have to put up with really worth the effort?

i dont get ur motiaations for ptuting this here

it's 2 am i don't have much to do and i'm kind of bored of games right now

i also like having debates because it allows me to see and respond to what other people are thinking and possibly incorporate those ideas into my own to improve them

that's how it would work if douchebags like floor didnt fly-by adhom and bdog had anything to say

besides "you're wrong, and i would correct you but i don't feel like it, so i won't show you what's wrong with your argument i'll just say it's wrong"

if something is wrong i would genuinely like to know what it is so i can either correct it or correct the misunderstanding, otherwise why would i be here

also its not much effort im just typing what i think

Floor

over 7 years

harodihg says

why do u care to type all of this on a public forum with people who either dont respect ur opnion, wont read what u say, or seemingly just dont like u.

beats me, thats why i asked bdog

cub

over 7 years

also here's the "egotistical" post

can someone quote the line in this post where I talk about how great I am or is it just egotistical because I'm saying something contrary to what you think, on a forum, about this topic

cub says

there is no such thing as selflessness, and that is not as bad as it sounds at first. why? because people who are compassionate generally benefit from it; not financially or whatever, but emotionally. can you tell me that you don't feel good helping people if you're empathetic? it makes you feel good, doesn't it? if it didn't, you probably wouldn't do it. you might like to think that you would simply because you do now, but you just aren't thinking about the fact that, even when you make sacrifices for someone else, you still benefit emotionally

even though it's technically selfish because you stand to benefit emotionally, is it at all a bad thing that you feel good helping people?

it's a net positive. it'd suck if you didn't feel good helping people because then you'd be trading your happiness for theirs, but instead the way empathy works maximizes happiness

deletedover 7 years

why do u care to type all of this on a public forum with people who either dont respect ur opnion, wont read what u say, or seemingly just dont like u. even if u find some people who will read all that and engage u in the manner that u want is everything else u have to put up with really worth the effort?

i dont get ur motiaations for ptuting this here

cub

over 7 years

Floor says

bdog1321 says

cub says

egotistical foxie

old timer bdog

egotistical floor

i love the irony of telling other people they're egotistical

Floor says

If anyone actually thinks people are only motivated by selfish reasons to do things for others i shake my face at you in pity

you think you have the absolute truth, no debate, you're just right

i'm actually having a discussion but no i'm full of myself, you're just dismissing everyone like any open-minded decent person does

again, people who profess selflessness are the ones who consider no viewpoints besides their own, shut off to discussion, don't even attempt to explain themselves

it's all about you and thinking you're right and only what you think matters
you desperately want to say this about me but who's always discussing these things with other people? is it you? if i didn't care what other people think i wouldnt have a discussion, i'd shut off and think i'm right and nobody else matters

like you do

cub

over 7 years

bdog1321 says

cub says

another internet debate won

no, you're just not good at talking to people i think

in your three posts after mine you either misunderstood or took out of context so many things that i both don't know where to begin, and don't even want to begin correcting you

only two of my posts were directed to you, the third one was as clearly stated about the test ("tests like these" =/= "bdogs like these")

correct this one thing if you can

you says

"well they're only doing that so they feel good" eventually you're just going to devolve into nihilism

so what you said here is that the assumption that compassion is selfish is nihilistic, yes? no other way to interpret it

me says

it's not 'nihilistic', thinking it is however is ironically pretty 'nihilistic' because then you must therefore be asserting that should it be true, it's a bleak truth and not something perfectly fine, reasonable, and moral

i'm saying that if you think it's nihilistic, that's your nihilistic outlook on life under this premise

it's you who is the nihilist then for having a nihilistic outlook

i hate the word nihilist can we just use real adjectives to describe things

deletedover 7 years

thelastchromosome says

or do you even know what to think at all? With that little monkey brain you have which is less effective then the human brain?

im gonna beat you over the skull with a wrench

Floor

over 7 years

bdog1321 says

cub says

egotistical foxie

old timer bdog

idunno what ur trying to achieve, you know how exchanging ideas with foxie will go, so what're you doing ?

Floor

over 7 years

thelastchromosome says

my only opinion is that i am better than other people. i pretend to have other opinions like with philosophy 101 essay questions that dont have real answers but its all just a reflection of i how am better than you and any opinion i pretend to have is correct

kek, nice banter. me gusta

If anyone actually thinks people are only motivated by selfish reasons to do things for others i shake my face at you in pity

deletedover 7 years

or do you even know what to think at all? With that little monkey brain you have which is less effective then the human brain?

deletedover 7 years

i think people do good things and i think youre a f*cking moron for thinking different

deletedover 7 years

debate me hatodihg i dare you

deletedover 7 years

pls correct me