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why aren't n1 kills random yet?

JohnnyBravo
almost 8 years

Arguments in favor:

  • Works against cheating
  • Works against trolling
  • Benefits competitive gameplay
  • Stops people from using meta to try and clear themselves (I'd never kill X, basically another form of cheating)
  • Stops experienced players from getting N1'ed 50% of the games.
  • Prevents a bunch of reports about grudgekilling, like this one https://epicmafia.com/report/207332 Mods already can't handle the current reports so taking work away from them is always a good thing.

Arguments against:

  • You can't get trolls out of your game. (Because for some reason, being able to kick people from your game is not possible)
  • Lucid would have to do something.
deletedalmost 8 years
OGI is in the game in many forms just deal with it
deletedalmost 8 years

JohnnyBravo says

No, literally the only reason to want to pick a N1 kill as mafia are out of game reasons. Maybe it's a strategic reason b/c of previous game, maybe it's a fearkill, maybe it's cheating, but the argument for making the kill is always based on something outside of the game. Why not actually focus on reading people in the game, not outside of the game? Or is that too difficult


Except its impossible to actually exclude all out of game influence. Like, if you playing with someone and you played with that person previous to that game then that's out of game influence already. You have a history and a knack of how to think towards that person and you're going to think that way no matter how hard you tried
JohnnyBravo
almost 8 years

Recidivism says


JohnnyBravo says


Recidivism says

this guy doesn't even play comp he plays fancy pants lol check his games


What does it matter? I don't play comp to avoid the majority of cheaters.


There are usually only 1-2 cheaters a round, and they are usually caught.

I don't need to defend my legitimacy, the mods have reviewed every one of my trophy wins.


alarm. 1-2 cheaters a round is not true, and the argument about the mods checking games is laughable. The mods are either cheaters themselves or incompetent. Might as well send monkeys to inspect Iran's nuclear plants.
deletedalmost 8 years
OK i'm gonna stop procrastinating this johnny dude's annoying me
deletedalmost 8 years

Miguel says


elephantasm says

but it's also not something I'd call playing against your wincon to not fearkill, because it's a subjective value and not everyone does fearkill, with current statistics


It's always subjective, that's why the option is there. For the people that feel the need to fearkill and the people who don't


I'm AGREEING with that. I was, previously, arguing with the idea that it was an "optimal and an inherent part of balance," because it felt like it was implying it's suboptimal not to fearkill, which I do not believe it is
JohnnyBravo
almost 8 years
No, literally the only reason to want to pick a N1 kill as mafia are out of game reasons. Maybe it's a strategic reason b/c of previous game, maybe it's a fearkill, maybe it's cheating, but the argument for making the kill is always based on something outside of the game. Why not actually focus on reading people in the game, not outside of the game? Or is that too difficult
deletedalmost 8 years

JohnnyBravo says

are you referring to fearkilling or cheating?


would you not kill the only good player in the table amongst 6 noobs?
deletedalmost 8 years

JohnnyBravo says


Recidivism says

this guy doesn't even play comp he plays fancy pants lol check his games


What does it matter? I don't play comp to avoid the majority of cheaters.


There are usually only 1-2 cheaters a round, and they are usually caught.

I don't need to defend my legitimacy, the mods have reviewed every one of my trophy wins.
deletedalmost 8 years
All in all, with this idea you're just diminishing options and possibilities, since you can have best of both worlds already without this forced random n1 thing
JohnnyBravo
almost 8 years
Which probably includes u as well.
JohnnyBravo
almost 8 years

Recidivism says

this guy doesn't even play comp he plays fancy pants lol check his games


What does it matter? I don't play comp to avoid the majority of cheaters.
JohnnyBravo
almost 8 years
Just because there are daystart setups doesn't mean the idea is flawed. 90% of the setups would be better.

It's an incredibly easy to make request and I've already outlined the arguments in favor and against.

I guess it is a very small deal to some people, but like I said I've been here since 2009, the only improvements I remember is trash like the games section, why not have an update that helps competitive integrity?
deletedalmost 8 years
this guy doesn't even play comp he plays fancy pants lol check his games
deletedalmost 8 years

elephantasm says

but it's also not something I'd call playing against your wincon to not fearkill, because it's a subjective value and not everyone does fearkill, with current statistics


It's always subjective, that's why the option is there. For the people that feel the need to fearkill and the people who don't
deletedalmost 8 years
There are only two setups this round you can even be fear killed in. Those setups are Drunken Disguise Party and Overturn 2 Riddler. Just don't play those two?
deletedalmost 8 years
this would barely prevent cheating at all. Metaclearing, yes, but that's rarely done intentionally every game, and mafia can base their kills around it
Devante
almost 8 years

JohnnyBravo says

Nah, it's the exact same argument, cheating is rampant, there are easy solutions to prevent it but no one has the balls to step up and do it.


Change a few words in this, you get 90% of Trump voters talking points & look how that turned out
deletedalmost 8 years
there are a lot of ways to not get fear killed, like playing one of the two dawn start setups I comped, or playing a setup with a doctor in it.

This is a very small deal.
JohnnyBravo
almost 8 years
Nah, it's the exact same argument, cheating is rampant, there are easy solutions to prevent it but no one has the balls to step up and do it.
deletedalmost 8 years

Miguel says


elephantasm says


Miguel says


Miguel says


elephantasm says


Recidivism says

I kill the best town players in my games when I am mafia, which is part of the reason I win trophies. Try it out sometime. Why on earth would I not choose to murder the player most likely to catch me?


because it takes no skill to n1 someone and certainly not a mafia-related one so it doesn't feel legitimate for everyone doing the n1ing (though it's clearly subjective), it's not fun for them if they get n1ed all the time, and it's more fun to play with those players, which pose a challenge, than players who are newer/less experienced and easier to dupe

you have a right to fearkill all you want but it's not an inherent part of balance, imo


What's to say it takes no skill? Even n1 kills can be strategical


Whether because of some influence that happened outside of the game or because you want to denounce someone from trying to meta clear themselves it provides mafia with a plan on what to do


ok. Takes a different skill that isn't necessarily what everyone wants to do, ergo, killing based on factors like what will be less fun or even who's the first on the list is not being intentionally suboptimal


Winning isn't always fun



but it's also not something I'd call playing against your wincon to not fearkill, because it's a subjective value and not everyone does fearkill, with current statistics
deletedalmost 8 years

JohnnyBravo says

I thought cheaters were modded.


Former cheaters are modded, which is stupid, I agree, but that's a different argument.
JohnnyBravo
almost 8 years

Recidivism says

JohnnyBravo you don't know what being fear killed is until you win at least one trophy


how is that not a garbage post when this thread if about randomizing N1 kills?
deletedalmost 8 years

Recidivism says


elephantasm says


Recidivism says

I sincerely doubt anyone in this thread has been fear killed more than I was on my 80% w/r Triumphant account that I literally deleted because I couldn't survive the first night.


ok but it doesn't change that it's not an inherent part of setup balance, does it? confused as to what I'm missing here


The current setups have the statistics they have now with fear killing included. Everything would tilt townsided without fear killing.


oh. okay. that's more fair, hadn't thought it through.

most of the comp setup statistics I've checked have had >50% mafia win rates and I tend to consider "optimal play" and "balance" to be related solely to statistical/rng wins, but that makes more sense
deletedalmost 8 years
"I only want posts that agree with my idea in my thread" - JohnnyBravo right now
thecolonel
almost 8 years

Recidivism says

I sincerely doubt anyone in this thread has been fear killed more than I was on my 80% w/r Triumphant account that I literally deleted because I couldn't survive the first night.


i got killed every night 1 when people feared my transphobia