Epicmafia

almost 8 years

let me give you a runescape example. jagex are rightly unapologetic towards those they ban for bug abuse in runescape. doing things that might be considered unfair.

however, they absolutely do not punish people who find and take advantage of unbalanced but working-as-intended content. it is merely rebalanced.

on rare occasions where it has been considered wildly unbalanced, there have been rollbacks and resets, but nothing was taken away from players that they ever got without their """"misuse""""

deletedalmost 8 years

Also mafia is at fault in this case. But this setup is as stupid as GAI

Hibiki

almost 8 years

the only mechanical based misuse in this game imo could be bug abuse. but it's not a bug, since the mechanics are working as written.

MasterFreakUltraman

almost 8 years

its pretty unecesary tho @kylo

deletedalmost 8 years

I was pretty much in autoloss! I blitz on both prs and I didn't know who bomb was but the main point is I had no idea the no save rule had changed for doc causs I saw doc no saving on meteor like 2 weeks ago

deletedalmost 8 years

Kylo says

"ban misusers" and "ban cheaters" permanently is the solution adopted by every game in the history of ever except this one.

they haven't banned cheaters for awhile now it's let's mod them instead.

Hibiki

almost 8 years

i'd like to rephrase my last post. i made an error.

i do not believe an action that can be executed within the game's action-based mechanics should be labelled "misuse"

deletedalmost 8 years

"ban misusers" and "ban cheaters" permanently is the solution adopted by every game in the history of ever except this one.

MasterFreakUltraman

almost 8 years

i literally dont think u should be bannin people for this stuff

deletedalmost 8 years

Hibiki says

this is the only case in the history of epicmafia where the "solution" has been "ban misusers" instead of "fix the problem"

Yeah, I guess that's why I'm not a moderator, huh? I think "ban misusers" is a f.ucking great solution.

Hibiki

almost 8 years

Hibiki says

lag knew lono would do that but killed the doc save stubbornly anyway. he chose 100% loss over 50/50

Hibiki says

technically, lag didnt know that for certain but frankly if anyone tried to tell me they didn't think doc would save i'd never believe them

@justrec

Hibiki

almost 8 years

this is the only case in the history of epicmafia where the "solution" has been "ban misusers" instead of "fix the problem"

deletedalmost 8 years

denial says

unless im missing something prs never hardclaimed, lag should've had to kill there for doc and then cc bomb. they even stalked the doc but the partner never really outted it like they agreed in the previous night

lag wasn't in autoloss by killing there so they should've killed in prs, i also think its silly to continually nk until the night of meteor.... its like in vdli when solo mafia keeps nking and hits 50/50 in orc/bp then and the game ends in a meteor because they hit bp

deletedalmost 8 years

Hibiki says

Kylo says

Hibiki says

yakjointing is dumb and unfair to everyone who loses to it, but as it was always in the players benefit it was correctly unpunished. same applies here

logically, the mafia are benefitted by how the meteor works, so why are we punishing them for using it?

You realize that Edark and I literally broke DLYV with yakjointing together with a 100% win strategy, right?

And the whole reason I did that was to prove how stupid the setup was.

and this setup is stupid for letting mafia kill the clear blue because the meteor prevdnts doc from saving

why are you patching up the setups design flaw eith rules?

Yes, this setup is stupid. I agree. But if it's going to be competitive, there should be a rule for it, and it should make sense.

Hibiki

almost 8 years

Kylo says

Hibiki says

yakjointing is dumb and unfair to everyone who loses to it, but as it was always in the players benefit it was correctly unpunished. same applies here

logically, the mafia are benefitted by how the meteor works, so why are we punishing them for using it?

You realize that Edark and I literally broke DLYV with yakjointing together with a 100% win strategy, right?

And the whole reason I did that was to prove how stupid the setup was.

and this setup is stupid for letting mafia kill the clear blue because the meteor prevdnts doc from saving

why are you patching up the setups design flaw eith rules?

deletedalmost 8 years

Hibiki says

it is, sonseray. at the end of the day, this one repeated scenario of doc vs mafia is only one single scenario. it has came to form in many cases but it is definitely Many Such Cases! of a single mechanical dispute

In every such case, the mafia has lost by virtue of being in the situation at all. I have never once been in this situation as mafia, because I know how to play the game.

deletedalmost 8 years

Yakjointing should not be allowed in competitions. Forcing meteor by mafia should not be allowed in competitions.

Competitions have rules. That's what makes them competitive.

Do we want competitions or do we not want competitions?

Hibiki

almost 8 years

it is, sonseray. at the end of the day, this one repeated scenario of doc vs mafia is only one single scenario. it has came to form in many cases but it is definitely Many Such Cases! of a single mechanical dispute

deletedalmost 8 years

Hibiki says

yakjointing is dumb and unfair to everyone who loses to it, but as it was always in the players benefit it was correctly unpunished. same applies here

logically, the mafia are benefitted by how the meteor works, so why are we punishing them for using it?

You realize that Edark and I literally broke DLYV with yakjointing together with a 100% win strategy, right?

And the whole reason I did that was to prove how stupid the setup was.

Hibiki

almost 8 years

yakjointing is dumb and unfair to everyone who loses to it, but as it was always in the players benefit it was correctly unpunished. same applies here

logically, the mafia are benefitted by how the meteor works, so why are we punishing them for using it?

deletedalmost 8 years

Hibiki says

Kylo says

Hibiki says

Kylo says

That's what rules are for. To enforce things we can't outside of the mechanics.

there is not one rule in the rules page that suggests "if X mechcanic is in play, then Y players must ignore its logistics and act accordingly to ensure fairness. not doing so is against the rules"

Well, there should be, that's what I'm saying.

for this one scenario? isn't that a bit arbitrary? what if something else comes up thats kinda not fair in your eyes? should we write a rule for that too?

or should we maybe finally ask lucid to change the meteor mechnic now that he can...?

Yes, for this one scenario. This is the only scenario that has been debated for 6 f.ucking years.

Hibiki

almost 8 years

Kylo says

Hibiki says

Kylo says

That's what rules are for. To enforce things we can't outside of the mechanics.

there is not one rule in the rules page that suggests "if X mechcanic is in play, then Y players must ignore its logistics and act accordingly to ensure fairness. not doing so is against the rules"

Well, there should be, that's what I'm saying.

for this one scenario? isn't that a bit arbitrary? what if something else comes up thats kinda not fair in your eyes? should we write a rule for that too?

or should we maybe finally ask lucid to change the meteor mechnic now that he can...?

deletedalmost 8 years

You're wrong about that, but mafia DIDN'T have to hand the town the win, they had another option, to try and hit doctor.

deletedalmost 8 years

Venus says

You're wrong. Mafia doesn't ever have to hand the town the win.

Mafia has already lost just by virtue of being in this situation. I've never been in this situation as mafia ever, because I know how to play.

A debate as old as time