Another layer of dilemma, regarding the 6 patients. Letting the five die would not only remove them from the world, but their offspring. The more people who decide to let the sixth patient live, the bigger debt we make in the overpopulation problem.
The last one you'd just have the guys in the other boat stay beside your boat and have people jump in and out of them all to keep shovelling the water without people getting tired as fast, and having the resting person in the other boat, and if the other boat dudes were like 'nah' then you'd stay by them, until the 5 hours was up, and then swim into the other boat once you were gonna start drowning. I mean really you can live a good couple days without stuff, so waiting 5 hours before the paddle off to shore is doable for the 9 dudes in a boat, like, that 5 hour headstart is minimal. If I have to choose, it depends on if any of the people in the boat are hot, and if any of them are nice. If some rudeass is there, let em die yanoe
(Ftr, for the first one, I'd either go and steal a convict, or save the 5 and then lie about why the 6th died, assuming the 5 all needed different organs, unless 6 was hot, then I'd tell her I'd only save her if she gave me money and service
For the second one, I'd just pull the chair cos I'd be salty af my gf got pregnant in the first place, like I didn't even want a child, once I get out of the camp I'm a free man. Tho it's tempting to let more dudes die, maybe that means I'd get slightly more food rations too)
[4:56:43 PM] LineLiar: lbr tho [4:56:48 PM] LineLiar: all of our survival instincts would kick in [4:56:51 PM] LineLiar: and we would all save ourselves [4:57:00 PM] LineLiar: we can be like nah i have morals :)) now [4:57:01 PM] N1ed EM: disagree [4:57:05 PM] LineLiar: but yeah in the end we'd all jump ship [4:57:17 PM] chase (atlantis): I can't swim so I'd have to stay my a$s on that boat [4:57:17 PM] N1ed EM: not everyone values their life above everything else [4:57:28 PM] N1ed EM: !! [4:57:33 PM] LineLiar: oh pls [4:57:37 PM] LineLiar: the others are probs gonna drown anyway [4:57:42 PM] LineLiar: might as well save urself [4:57:50 PM] N1ed EM: isn't that like the galileo effect [4:58:12 PM] N1ed EM: the quality of being willing to die for someone else will slowly die out since people that have that trait will literally die for other people [4:58:16 PM | Edited 4:58:43 PM] N1ed EM: and therefore reproduce less [4:58:43 PM] LineLiar: well thats deep sh*t [4:58:53 PM] LineLiar: i would die for people i love [4:58:56 PM] LineLiar: not for random people [4:59:11 PM] N1ed EM: id die for people I hate [4:59:17 PM] calem: i'd die [4:59:19 PM] LineLiar: ur so nice [4:59:28 PM] N1ed EM: i dont even think it's being nice [4:59:32 PM] N1ed EM: id be like "cool death" [4:59:38 PM] N1ed EM: and ggnore [5:00:06 PM] Zeezo: I'd like to say I'd die for those people on the boat [5:00:17 PM] Zeezo: But you can't really be sure unless you're actually in that situation
[4:52:10 PM] N1ed EM: You've been on a cruise for two days when there's an accident that forces everyone on board to abandon ship. During the evacuation, one of the boats is damaged, leaving it with a hole that fills it with water. You figure that with 10 people in the boat, you can keep the boat afloat by having nine people scoop the filling water out by hand for 10 minutes while the 10th person rests. After that person's 10-minute rest, he or she will get back to work while another person rests, and so on. This should keep the boat from sinking long enough for a rescue team to find you as long as it happens within five hours. You're taking your first brake when you notice your best friend in a sound lifeboat with only nine people in it and he beckons you to swim over and join them so you won't have to keep bailing out water. If you leave the people in the sinking boat, they will only be able to stay afloat for two hours instead of five, decreasing their chance of being rescued, but securing yours. What do you do?
Stay in your boat and hope that you are all rescued in five hours time, before the boat sinks and you all drown.
Jump ship and join your friend in his boat and hope that the others are rescued within two hours. [4:52:54 PM] LineLiar: jump ship [4:52:56 PM] LineLiar: soz [4:52:57 PM] Zeezo: Is this a math problem [4:52:58 PM] JohnBatman: i'd jump ship and join my friend in his boat [4:53:02 PM] calem: lmao bye saving myself [4:53:08 PM] N1ed EM: u people are savages [4:53:13 PM] N1ed EM: honestly I wouldn't do either [4:53:20 PM] N1ed EM: but if I had to pick one I'd stay on the boat [4:53:37 PM] N1ed EM: what I'd honestly probably do is tell someone else about the boat and let them jump ship Lol
[4:46:58 PM] JohnBatman: it would be my son [4:46:58 PM] chase (atlantis): Pull out the chair [4:47:05 PM] JohnBatman: I can't do such a thing [4:47:07 PM] N1ed EM: better me than some idiot guard [4:47:19 PM] calem: why would the guard not kill you for refusing to obey orders though [4:47:26 PM] LineLiar: [4:44 PM] N1ed EM:
<<< Refuse to pull the chair out from under your son, ensuring both his death and the death of another inmate.DUH IM NOT GOING TO KILL MY KID U CRAZY? [4:47:27 PM] N1ed EM: that's not the QUESTION [4:47:40 PM] calem: the innocent could be you. [4:47:40 PM] JohnBatman: your son dies anyway [4:47:43 PM] N1ed EM: revoke calem's concentration camp membership [4:47:44 PM] LineLiar: SO [4:47:47 PM] LineLiar: I WONT BE RESPONSIBLE [4:47:48 PM] calem: revoke my life [4:47:56 PM] N1ed EM: but yeah I'd pull it from my son tearfully [4:48:06 PM] LineLiar: i wouldnt be able to live with the idea of having killed my own kid wtf [4:48:16 PM] Zeezo: Plot twist I don't have a son [4:49:24 PM] N1ed EM: okay good points but like [4:49:25 PM] N1ed EM: idk
After the strong response from his fellow housemates, N1ed posted another moral dilemma.
[4:44:20 PM] N1ed EM: You and your son are prisoners at a concentration camp. You son tried to escape but was recaptured and sentenced to hang at the gallows. To send a message to all others who may try to escape, the guard orders you to pull the chair out from under your son; if you refuse, the guard will kill your son and another innocent person in the camp. What do you do?
Tearfully pull the chair out from under your son.
Refuse to pull the chair out from under your son, ensuring both his death and the death of another inmate. [4:44:22 PM] JohnBatman: I guess i'd flip a coin but i'd save emile probably [4:44:41 PM] N1ed EM: am I stressing you guys out with all of these moral conflicts [4:44:42 PM] calem: he's gonna die anyways [4:44:55 PM] Emile C-I: lol [4:44:59 PM] Emile C-I: I would go to my son [4:45:00 PM] Emile C-I: and say [4:45:10 PM] Emile C-I: "you deserve this" [4:45:12 PM] Emile C-I: and pull the chair [4:45:17 PM] Jessy: the innocent person is gna die anyway [4:45:18 PM] Jessy: lbr [4:45:22 PM | Removed 4:45:20 PM] bobby: This message has been removed. [4:45:34 PM] calem: sketchy [4:45:47 PM] c ★: n1’d hitting us with the real dilemmas [4:46:43 PM] N1ed EM: jessy not exactly [4:46:48 PM] JohnBatman: it's sketchy but the end result is the same - i'd probably refuse to pull out the chair [4:46:50 PM] N1ed EM: I'd pull the chair out from my son tbh [4:46:56 PM] N1ed EM: am I savage [4:46:56 PM] Zeezo: I'd probably refuse to pull the chair out just to be a to the guards
[4:38:30 PM] JohnBatman: the utilitarian decision is saving the five others [4:38:31 PM] N1ed EM: if it were a real hospital they'd probably save patient six [4:38:44 PM] Jason: oh wait [4:38:46 PM] Jason: I misread [4:38:51 PM] Jason: I thought he meant saving 5 [4:38:53 PM] JohnBatman: the by the book decision is saving the one [4:38:57 PM] Jason: saving patient 6 is the moral decision [4:39:03 PM] Zeezo: Yes it is [4:39:03 PM] JohnBatman: the utilitarian decision is the best decision [4:39:13 PM] LineLiar: why are we arguing about hypothetical decisions we'll never get to make cuz we're all too stupid to be doctors anyway [4:39:15 PM] Jason: I don't think ethics can apply here [4:39:15 PM] JohnBatman: 5 people saved > 1 person saved [4:39:16 PM] Gerry: those drawings with me in them were all beautiful [4:39:17 PM] Zeezo: I wouldn't want that blood on my hands [4:39:29 PM] c ★: i think [4:39:38 PM] c ★: we should revoke calem’s medical license [4:39:40 PM] N1ed EM: it'd be different if patient 6 was conscious and knowing of their death [4:39:41 PM] c ★: just imo [4:40:09 PM] Zeezo: It's basically the trolley effect [4:40:30 PM] calem: calvin is right
[4:36:05 PM] Jessy: isn't this the trolley effect [4:36:12 PM] N1ed EM: idk is it [4:36:15 PM] N1ed EM: it's a moral dilemma [4:36:16 PM] Zeezo: Yeah it basically is [4:36:24 PM] LineLiar: lol you guys [4:36:26 PM] Zeezo: Except a little different [4:36:28 PM] JohnBatman: uh [4:36:31 PM] JohnBatman: it's clear [4:36:34 PM] JohnBatman: what you need to do [4:36:37 PM] JohnBatman: save the five others [4:36:39 PM] N1ed EM: and yeah it's more whatever the heck the word is to save 5 people [4:36:40 PM] N1ed EM: but [4:36:42 PM] JohnBatman: not even a question [4:36:42 PM] Zeezo: With the trolley effect it would be even less ethical to kill that 1 person [4:36:46 PM] chase (atlantis): if you let patient 6 die you'd get slapped with a major lawsuit [4:36:47 PM] N1ed EM: it's not your decision to just let someone. For [4:36:49 PM] N1ed EM: *die [4:37:07 PM] N1ed EM: it's actually against the law to give less care to patients just because they're organ donors [4:37:10 PM] JohnBatman: it's black and white - save five people and kill one, or kill five people to save one [4:37:11 PM] Zeezo: Luca you're essentially letting someone you can save die to save those people [4:37:24 PM] Zeezo: No its not that 1 patient is in your hands [4:37:28 PM] JohnBatman: yeah but otherwise more people die [4:37:46 PM] N1ed EM: it's not exactly black and white [4:37:53 PM] Zeezo: But you couldn't save them in the first place [4:38:00 PM] Jason: On 9/17/16, at 4:34 PM, chase (atlantis) wrote: > saving patient 6 would be the most ethical decision
no, that is the utilitarian decision [4:38:04 PM] Zeezo: Unless you basically 'killed' someone else [4:38:14 PM] N1ed EM: you have a way to save one patient WITHOUT killing people, and you have a way of saving five people WITH killing people
After the tough sweatpants decision, N1ed later asked a question that is a hypothetical moral dilemma, and it showed many revealing responses.
[4:31:59 PM] N1ed EM: You are a doctor at a top hospital. You have six gravely ill patients, five of whom are in urgent need of organ transplants. You can't help them, though, because there are no available organs that can be used to save their lives. The sixth patient, however, will die without a particular medicine. If s/he dies, you will be able to save the other five patients by using the organs of patient 6, who is an organ donor. What do you do?
Keep patient 6 comfortable, but do not give him the medical care that could save his life in order to save the other five patients.
Save patient 6 and let the other five die; it’s unfortunate, but that’s not your call to make. [4:32:11 PM] N1ed EM: asking the real questions [4:32:45 PM] calem: how about i let them all die [4:33:00 PM] calem: decisions are stressful [4:33:13 PM] chase (atlantis): revoke calem's medical license [4:33:14 PM] Zeezo: Save patient 6 [4:33:38 PM] Zeezo: What would you do N1ed [4:33:48 PM] N1ed EM: revoke calem's medical license [4:33:58 PM] calem: revoke calem's medical license [4:34:02 PM] Zeezo: LOL [4:34:11 PM] Zeezo: Smart decision [4:34:16 PM] N1ed EM: i would save patient 6 though, not my call [4:34:28 PM] chase (atlantis): saving patient 6 would be the most ethical decision [4:34:40 PM] Zeezo: Yeah exactly [4:35:29 PM] bobby: We'll see soon enough what you do when faced with difficult decisions [4:35:40 PM] JohnBatman: i'd only keep patient 6 comfortable [4:35:53 PM] JohnBatman: it's more utilitarian to save five people [4:35:56 PM] JohnBatman: than just one [4:36:00 PM] N1ed EM: ultimately, would you rather hear that your loved one could've been saved, but was unwillingly killed to save others, or hear that your loved one died because there was no way that the hospital could've done anything
[4:22:49 PM] Emile C-I: I always found social norms and general manners to be quite amusing [4:23:37 PM] JohnBatman: ? [4:23:46 PM] JohnBatman: lol [4:24:07 PM] N1ed EM: social norms are decided by humans and since you are a human you have a say [4:24:14 PM] N1ed EM: make the social norm sweatpants 2016 [4:24:23 PM] Emile C-I: more like [4:24:26 PM] Emile C-I: wear whatever the you want [4:24:53 PM] Emile C-I: a party is a place where people get together, or meet new peeps, or something try to find someone to bang [4:24:55 PM] chase (atlantis): I'm wearing a crop top and lady jeans I don't really adhere to social norms anyway [4:24:56 PM] jakey: wear sweatpants [4:25:06 PM] Emile C-I: this is no business place where you have to wear ties and tuxedos [4:25:39 PM] JohnBatman: no but you can't go in sweatpants [4:25:47 PM] JohnBatman: different clothes are for different occasions [4:25:56 PM] JohnBatman: I prefer elegance [4:26:06 PM] N1ed EM: ties and tuxedos are such a weird formality thing [4:26:11 PM] N1ed EM: like .... [4:26:13 PM] JohnBatman: but yeah, technically you're free to wear whatever you want [4:26:15 PM] JohnBatman: yeah [4:26:23 PM] JohnBatman: ties and tuxedos aren't for parties [4:26:42 PM] JohnBatman: an OCBD shirt and jeans and vans work perfectly though [4:26:52 PM] chase (atlantis): this is the most drama this chat has seen so far I don't know if I can handle it
There is a house discussion on whether or not atlantis should wear sweats to a party, which has sparked controversy about social norms and general manners.
[4:15:46 PM] chase (atlantis): quick question guys is it socially acceptable to wear sweats to a party [4:15:55 PM] JohnBatman: LOL [4:16:03 PM] JohnBatman: I know a guy who did that once [4:16:05 PM] Ginga: idk I don't go to parties ;-; [4:16:12 PM] JohnBatman: everybody asked him why [4:16:13 PM] chase (atlantis): I really don't want to do laundry [4:16:20 PM] JohnBatman: and he said he came back from football practice [4:16:26 PM] JohnBatman: I recommend you wear jeans or chinos [4:16:29 PM] JohnBatman: not sweats LOL [4:16:39 PM] chase (atlantis): I'm just going to go nude [4:16:52 PM] JohnBatman: be sure to send pics ;) [4:17:02 PM] Emile C-I: sweats? [4:17:27 PM] chase (atlantis): Is there a problem, Emile? [4:17:42 PM] Emile C-I: no I just don't know what those are [4:17:49 PM] Jessy: sweatpants [4:17:49 PM] chase (atlantis): Sweatpants [4:17:52 PM] Emile C-I: oh [4:18:02 PM] Emile C-I: sure I would wear them [4:18:25 PM] Emile C-I: but my understanding of social rules is [4:18:28 PM] Emile C-I: very limited [4:18:59 PM] calem: clearly [4:19:01 PM] Jessy: i'd make sure other ppl are also wearing sweatpants [4:19:07 PM] N1ed EM: wait are you supposed to actually care [4:19:09 PM] N1ed EM: lol [4:19:18 PM] JohnBatman: just wear jeans man [4:19:25 PM] JohnBatman: sweats aren't for parties [4:20:48 PM] chase (atlantis): I'm not actually going to wear sweats I have to at least pretend I have my life together [4:22:09 PM] N1ed EM: comfortable > having your life together [4:22:29 PM] JohnBatman: having your life together > comfortable
