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Just Allow Cheating

Orly
about 8 years

Guys, listen, I think you have forgotten something.

You have forgotten to enjoy this game and made it into something it's not. Mafia is not a good competitive game. It's not good at proving skill in this format, either, but that being said, most of you who trophy are very, very skillful.

We all get that. We are proud of your intellect and your ability to persuade.

But let's just be honest: most of you rig games now because guess what, that's what has always been done. Friends have always thrown for friends, and it's been that way since Day 1, to be honest.

What's changed is the way you conceal it, or the methodology, or just the attitude towards it.

Moving forward, I'm going to ask that the staff begins to allow friend meta, coding to friends, etc., so forth. Stop trying to catch cheaters.

We need to wane back on the report system entirely. People were always misbehaving, and they will continue to find a way to do so. Hateful remarks aside, which should be dealt with, the report system has done more harm than good to this site.

And at the core of the issue is cheating. Cheating used to just be in the game's chat. We had conversations that had implications, leading to rolesharing, teaming, etc. Now you guys are so shady about it and you always do it outside of the game, in another chat. What you've done with this process is remove the more freestyle conversation, the party element of Epicmafia.

The report system's penalizations, starting out incredibly strict, gradually diminished in strength on the broad range of what was considered inappropriate gameplay. However, the damage has been done, and the reality is that the gameplay has suffered from people's playing around the rules.

Because that's what people do on the internet. They skirt the rules, because they can online. That's what makes it fun. And unfortunately, when the game we're playing suddenly requires you to take that fun conversation outside of the game, then we're not really having a conversation at all, are we? We're just rehearsing roles, filling in mechanical duties, sheeping clears, and systemizing the setup's variation on Mafia.

And this, this my friends, is what has happened to EM. This restrictive environment has not helped cultivate the game, and unfortunately, as necessary as it was at the point of its implementation, it only has shrunk the site, rather than retain the playerbase (admittedly it did so for a time).

Again, the reality of the long-term effects of the Report System has been a culture of moving the conversation outside of the game, and so as a player that tries to only speak inside the game, I can tell you, it's just not the same anymore. It used to be quite something else. Much more diverse, and not even close to this formulaic, guided gameplay.

Anyway, this is my little recommendation. Take it if you want. I think the site would be better off just silently acknowledging and accepting that people will always cheat in the game if they can, and let us all just enjoy that amusing experience. Because that's what a social psychological game is: amusing and experimental - not routine and competitive.

Cheers,

Vex/Derpachu/Vash/Orly/MMLM/et al

tl;dr, let cheating happen, it is literally a part of the game, so it will always happen somehow, and memes prosper. harambe smiles down on us

also unban everyone. seriously.

timewalker102
about 8 years
But now vilden cant win any more games by banning people
LeMeJoe
about 8 years
If we allowed cheating to everyone then what non-reportable special power would the mods have to win so many comps?
shaGuar
about 8 years
>Just allow cheating
>6 upclicks
deletedabout 8 years
just let stiffy cheat already
deletedabout 8 years

Sulfur says

I'm quitting this website.


My dislike of the current player base, mods, and the dullness of the forum posting is getting to me.
deletedabout 8 years
That comment is not the classic idiot trolling on this website.
deletedabout 8 years
I'm quitting this website.
Pottedstuff
about 8 years
This war on cheating has got to stop, our prisons are overcrowded and it robs epicmafia of some of its most kind and fair players, like dyl and abc!
Zimm
about 8 years
assuming people will always follow the rules is stupid. We either need elected mods or allow cheating to happen, no real way around it. Itd be cool if we had mod elections i think and regularly changed mods
brownpimp007
about 8 years
Why hasn't Calvin plussed this thread? <3
zambi
about 8 years
or you could mod people who don't cheat. what a concept!
Orly
about 8 years
round wouldnt be paused right now if we

just allow cheating
Irreverent
about 8 years
i agree. winter's coming, please allow heating.
deletedabout 8 years
srsly?
Orly
about 8 years
bumping past sonse's spam
SpavvN
about 8 years

Orly says

spavvn if you read OP, i already said that cheating has been around since day 1, and it was actually more tolerated then than it is now. the game is just designed in such a way that it is actually impossible to avoid cheating. so you have to sort of embrace it, because limiting it just doesnt work at all.


Yeah I still need to read most of the op
SpavvN
about 8 years

Orly says

another way to phrase it is that by banning/reporting cheating, we have created a system in which the cheaters who are with the in-crowd of the mod team will always get away with it, but everyone else cannot cheat. you can cycle mod teams/admins all you want, but the core concept will still persist.


this initially seems great for those insiders, the elitists you might call them, but ultimately it just breaks the game and makes the competition void of any real merit

also it encourages bad play and trolling, which i implied earlier


This is another reason for an exclusive comp lobby. New mods, tables monitored, cheating is apparent, games are overall going to be better. Your suggestion is asking for a lobby split. Main lobby is a no rule zone. Comp lobby is strict rule enforcing zone

Tolerating cheating in one main lobby would kill the site without a comp lobby split. Theres no question.

So I support the OP. Bring back comp lob
Orly
about 8 years
spavvn if you read OP, i already said that cheating has been around since day 1, and it was actually more tolerated then than it is now. the game is just designed in such a way that it is actually impossible to avoid cheating. so you have to sort of embrace it, because limiting it just doesnt work at all.
Orly
about 8 years
another way to phrase it is that by banning/reporting cheating, we have created a system in which the cheaters who are with the in-crowd of the mod team will always get away with it, but everyone else cannot cheat. you can cycle mod teams/admins all you want, but the core concept will still persist.


this initially seems great for those insiders, the elitists you might call them, but ultimately it just breaks the game and makes the competition void of any real merit

also it encourages bad play and trolling, which i implied earlier, as well as a culture of haves and have-nots that has helped alienate the community from itself
SpavvN
about 8 years
I'd only play in a competitive (vip) place with no cheating or not play at all

and lots of players like me will follow. Site has turned casual enough that cheating is tolerated. In other words this is just another games lobby game, where friends tell each other their "draw it" drawing.
Orly
about 8 years
Well the actual difference is that back in the day, there were a lot of people interested in trophying, and there was not any real certainty who was going to side with whom beyond close friends and partners. there were a lot more players just favoring others randomly, because cheating overlapped. people just made alliances or judgement calls in-game, based on who they were playing with and also what was said. the groups were formed in-game, not in skype lobbies, etc.

now that the attempts at cheating have moved outside the game, however, it is much more coordinated and less of a free-for-all. nothing will probably take us back to that point, because it was just a matter of time until cheating at the game got more sophisticated, but if you encourage friend meta, etc, then you do have the chance of groups joining lobbies without realizing one person is throwing for the other side despite claiming otherwise.

in other words, softly allowing cheating basically tells players it is ok to break their cheating rings to cheat for someone else, b.c no one is going to call them out on it etc or rat them out. theres nothing to rat out, its just standard play.

i mean it literally is an aspect to the game, as many of you like to subtly imply (cough pranay).

also i will take edark's lack of reply as affirmation and that this policy is now in effect, since confirming it is in effect would forfeit the point of quietly just permitting it.

so go cheat and prosper, everyone.
packidy
about 8 years

Arcbell says

Problem with this packidy is that people wouldn't break bonds with their friends to be on some random's team.


To that I say those people do not have a true desire to win.
JimSpermWorm
about 8 years

packidy says

In theory we could allow cheating. It would create a new 'game' in which we need to determine whether or not the person across from us is "on our team" as well as if they are "really on our team". Its a double challenge. I like that. The game gives everyone a random role, but you also chose your username's role. Do you choose to be a lone wolf, playing on your own? Do you choose to team with a group of friends in order to increase your odds of winning? Do you join a cheating ring and lie to them simply to screw them over for cheating? Do you join multiple cheating rings in order to be a mole and sabotage one group to benefit another? It sounds like a wonderful game within the game. Orly, I'm with this idea. I suggest you create a cheating lobby as a test.


Please learn to press the enter key.
citeopmI
about 8 years

packidy says

In theory we could allow cheating. It would create a new 'game' in which we need to determine whether or not the person across from us is "on our team" as well as if they are "really on our team". Its a double challenge. I like that. The game gives everyone a random role, but you also chose your username's role. Do you choose to be a lone wolf, playing on your own? Do you choose to team with a group of friends in order to increase your odds of winning? Do you join a cheating ring and lie to them simply to screw them over for cheating? Do you join multiple cheating rings in order to be a mole and sabotage one group to benefit another? It sounds like a wonderful game within the game. Orly, I'm with this idea. I suggest you create a cheating lobby as a test.


may i redirect you to survivor lobby
Arcbell
about 8 years
Problem with this packidy is that people wouldn't break bonds with their friends to be on some random's team.