I suppose this means I should laugh at every pathetic person who was caught guising by me bc guiser is S+ class.

Suppose that you were sitting down at a table. The napkins are in front of you, which napkin would you take? The one on your ‘left’? Or the one on your ‘right’? The one on your left side? Or the one on your right side? Usually you would take the one on your left side. That is ‘correct’ too. But in a larger sense on society, that is wrong. Perhaps I could even substitute ‘society’ with the ‘Universe’. The correct answer is that ‘It is determined by the one who takes his or her own napkin first.’ …Yes? If the first one takes the napkin to their right, then there’s no choice but for others to also take the ‘right’ napkin. The same goes for the left. Everyone else will take the napkin to their left, because they have no other option. This is ‘society’… Who are the ones that determine the price of land first? There must have been someone who determined the value of money, first. The size of the rails on a train track? The magnitude of electricity? Laws and Regulations? Who was the first to determine these things? Did we all do it, because this is a Republic? Or was it Arbitrary? NO! The one who took the napkin first determined all of these things! The rules of this world are determined by that same principle of ‘right or left?’! In a Society like this table, a state of equilibrium, once one makes the first move, everyone must follow! In every era, this World has been operating by this napkin principle. And the one who ‘takes the napkin first’ must be someone who is respected by all. It’s not that anyone can fulfill this role… Those that are despotic or unworthy will be scorned. And those are the ‘losers’. In the case of this table, the ‘eldest’ or the ‘Master of the party’ will take the napkin first… Because everyone ‘respects’ those individuals. I have taken the first napkin.

Friendly reminder that if given the chance, BERNlESANDERS will confiscate the facilities of the gunsmiths and outlaw personal tinkering just because of a few rogue fabricators.

The most important role in EpicMafia is that of the regular villager. We cannot grow as a lobby if we look to the needs of a powerful role like a cop or a ninja instead of the needs of the common man, the villager. In the day time, he wants to work a good, fair paying job, he wants to come home to his family, he wants to be secure in his children's future, he wants to be secure in his world's future, and he wants to be secure in his own future. Frivolous and dangerous things like killing people are not his way and should not be our way, as Americans and as human beings. We should look up to the villager and use him as an example of what role we get should be.

tbh blinder and fiddler are worse nonmeeting maf than thief

Maxog says

I guess we should add CG in sandbox setup now amirite guys

no, everyone hates CG, even more than autocrat

minigun says

I where is thief why does everyone forget this role

the worst non meeting maf. E tier

where is thief why does everyone forget this role

I guess we should add CG in sandbox setup now amirite guys

moonlightseal says

1. mistletoe can both win with town and be a hostile 3rd, and is a two checks per night cop.
2. party host can clear himself. (sort of, much weaker than celeb and crier)
3. 50% time lyncher target will sui in front of you so you can't win.
4. yeah I should switch the watcher with lookout.
5. Vent, voodoo, forger, and even tailor is based on luck, skill and how dumb town is too much, I honestly don't know where to put them. Even game winrates don't matter for these roles.
6. Lovers have really high chance to die if they don't love mafs. and they can be roleblocked n1.
7. What's wrong with nurse?

1) fair point about this, forgot mistle can actually joint with town, bumped to B
2) true, but i still dont think its worth a B tier. maybe i went too far with dropping it to D, but C is the most you can get out of this role
3) not really true, i could argue for C+ instead of B- but not below that
5) forger can at least figure out roles if people leave them on will, and/or **** up with town if combined with a stalker/actress. tailor at least gets a list of roles. i think they're both a bit too up now that i recheck, i admit i didnt put much thought on those
6)thats true,but it still wins games quite often

Nocturnul says

its crap

it can win games twice as fast for mafia

not crap

Nocturnul says

its crap

so is epicmafia

its crap

Nocturnul says

why is hitman S+ lol

extra, guaranteed kill for mafia every night that goes through every kind of protection (iirc about this last part, but just the extra kill is enough)

why is hitman S+ lol

1. mistletoe can both win with town and be a hostile 3rd, and is a two checks per night cop.
2. party host can clear himself. (sort of, much weaker than celeb and crier)
3. 50% time lyncher target will sui in front of you so you can't win.
4. yeah I should switch the watcher with lookout.
5. Vent, voodoo, forger, and even tailor is based on luck, skill and how dumb town is too much, I honestly don't know where to put them. Even game winrates don't matter for these roles.
6. Lovers have really high chance to die if they don't love mafs. and they can be roleblocked n1.
7. What's wrong with nurse?

nurse should be in broken tier

oh forgot to mention mistletoe is also pretty bad so im dumping it to C tier

S++: Zombie
S+ : poisoner, hitman
S : chef, stalker, actress, yakuza

A+ : detective, santa
A : surgeon, cultist
A- : blacksmith, arsonist. forger, tailor, spy, scout, watcher, mastermind, clockmaker, disguiser

B+: crier, lookout, tracker, fool
B: cop, insane, lazy, vigil, gunsmith, mimic, dreamer, caroler, driver, illusionist, interceptor, witch, fabricator, associate, maid, amnesiac, voodoo, lover, vivor
B-: celebrity, priest, granny, governor, don, gramps, toreador, terrorist, mason, tree, lyncher

C+: invisible, penguin, agent, loudmouth, psychic, jailer, sheriff, deputy, tinkerer, janitor, vent, autocrat
C: keymaker, journalist, doctor, nurse, bodyguard, trapper, informant, hooker, ninja, sniper, werewolf, killer, anarchist, monk, mistletoe, CG
C-: paralyzer, drunk

D+: ghoul, oracle, hunter, bomb, bleeder,
D: bulletproof, strongman, interrogator, fiddler, silencer, cthulhu, party, virgin, shrink
D-: baker, gallis, cupid, angel, alien, prophet

E: lightkeeper, leader F+: adimirer F: siren

F-: Mortician, Civilian, Traitor, Templar,Sleepwalker

guiser isn't S+ because it gets outed by bombs/chef/guns/etc.

hitman isn't S+ because mafia in sandbox never claim to their non-meeting mafia

yak isn't that good because people in sandbox rarely ever scumhunt and nilla maf is terrible

arsonist should be higher because it can win the game even when mafia is at a severe deficit

scout and lookout aren't nearly that good because 3/4 of the sandbox roles are PRs

werewolf is really good in sandbox because everyone is dumb

siren should be lower

oh, i love tier list ive been in communities that have been doing this since 2006 or smt


lets see my opinions:

guiser is way too high, even with the buff it's an A- or B+ role at most, there are very few times where guising is actually useful (caroler/dream/dumbass cop outing report without knowing sanity)

santa should be S or A+, investigating around half of the nights plus chances of either protecting a PR or gunning a cop if there is a doc, as well as sometimes being able to save town from famine is great.

mason in sandbox is B- at most, there are few town roles that are better as mason, and mismasoning after n1 is not a good deal


tree and vent are B- or C+ at most. tree ruins games more often than save them for not being able to vote, and thats without counting that ww may chew them easily. for a vent to be useful, you need to have a stupid town or at least a stupid person to vent as.


voodoo is a B tier, as it requires either a lot of metagaming or an outed power role to be useful, and even so its not that good.


i'd switch lookout and watcher, lookout is not that useful for mafia but watcher is for town


party host is useless other than for figuring out of wheter there is a jailer or a gator. D tier at most.

virgin needs the D... tier. its not useful at all at least not the way most sandbox users play. played efficiently it'd be D+ at most anyways.


lyncher deserves B- tier. while not as easy to win as lyncher than as fool, its not that different. only problem is your target may die while youre alive rendering yourself useless

lover and vivor actually wins way too many games even if not solo. B tier.


creepygirl is not S++ tier at all. CG either wins n1 or doesn't win at all, unless the people that get the doll are stupid enough to not out it and not say who they are giving it to or a gs is dumb enough to gun the CG

ill post my tier list next post

Coconutnut says

"There are no bad roles, only bad players" - some random weeb on here

The quote was actually by Bdog1321.

Then Leader to F tier

You can't really put Leader in the same tier as LK though. LK is hilarious when he dies, Leader just makes people veg.

Maxog says

You forgot a few roles, I can't be arsed to go through all of them so here's a few.

S++ (Broken Tier): Creepygirl, Autocrat, Zombie
D-: Leader
F-: Mortician, Civilian, Traitor, Templar, Shrink, Sleepwalker
Golbolco: Villager

There's probably more but I'm at work and have work to do

Autocrat should be A- or B, he didn't win many games when he was insandbox official setup
Leader should be E, everyone hates that role
Shrink used to be considered ok when zombie was in official setup, so an E+ or D- would be fine.
Agree with the others

"There are no bad roles, only bad players" - some random weeb on here

You forgot a few roles, I can't be arsed to go through all of them so here's a few.

S++ (Broken Tier): Creepygirl, Autocrat, Zombie
D-: Leader
F-: Mortician, Civilian, Traitor, Templar, Shrink, Sleepwalker
Golbolco: Villager

There's probably more but I'm at work and have work to do.