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Competitive's current state

deletedabout 9 years

In this thread, I'll describe the whole Main Lobby Competitive with only one game.

https://epicmafia.com/game/4585896/review (No need to review, I'll talk about it here)

Carbon14 Dawnstart:

My Role is Cop.

Day One: Town thought it was a good idea to NL 2 days in a row instead of using the Mislynch.

Day Two: Mafia claimed Tracker with me (Cop) visiting the Dead, so I was forced to out my role as Cop, also forcing Tracker to Counter Claim, so both power roles are out Day two.

Day Three: Tracker is killed, since the setup is the godfather setup, so Tracker is the optimal PR to kill...

So, Day three had: Cop, Godfather, 2 Villagers and a Confirmed godfather.

I told the town that the most optimal thing to do today is to not lynch the Confirmed godfather, and instead lynching outside the confirmed mafia today because we had a clear (Me), because if we just voted the Confirmed Mafia the clear will die and the game will be decided in a 3 Way no clear.

But town refused, even when I explained my logic, and they lynched the Confirmed Mafia.

Day Four: A Villager was lynching another Villager because I had an inno on a Godfather, and after the game ended he said that I gamethrew because I said that the godfather was my Village report. And then someone blamed me for the loss and said that the mafia was bad.

Because of this game, I suggest that we make the minimum points to join Competitive higher, something like 50k points, to make the trophies seriously worth something and 100% Legit..

And I'm not even joking by saying 50K points, it doesn't matter if the players who join are going to be way less, but it is better than having a meaningless trophy that is won because some people aren't good enough to play Competitive Mafia, which is why unknown people who do not deserve to trophy, end up winning a trophy even though they didn't do much all round.

DrakeJr
about 9 years
A player who plays 500 games of fp isn't better than a player who plays 50 games of fp
DrakeJr
about 9 years
Lol
Burial
about 9 years
a lot of games have a beginner lobby that you cant play in anymore when you pass a certain point threshold, maybe that would work?
deletedabout 9 years
10k is too much too
deletedabout 9 years
no one would play if 50k was the points to get to idiot. thats too much fancy pants and fancy pants makes players bad
Froce
about 9 years
Adding to what xDrake is saying in this thread, obviously splitting the lobbies into a beginner lobby where you can learn the most basic of mafia (classic mafia + fancy pants as an additional more complex setup) and another lobby where you hold all the competent setups. all you need to do, is just ban fancy pants and classic from the "main lobby" and make them the only setups in a beginner lobby.

Get rid of unranked games period. make them sandbox exclusive, any other game, in any other lobby, counts towards your overall record. this is not different from town of salem's take with the Casual Lobby and Ranked Lobby. except it'll translate better in epicmafia because it's designed better for competitive play.
Froce
about 9 years
dude skillz are you out of your mind? not 50k points but seriously 10k minimum.

also that game is a horrible example, crucifix was obviously trolling and not taking the game seriously, you can report him for that. but it doesn't reflect the state of competitive players.
xDrake
about 9 years

Loreli says

Fancy pants isn't good at teaching anyone anything in any continuum. It's nice if you like casual mafia. Bar that, you're not learning how to scumhunt, how to be assertive, how to read through previous days, any really major mechanics, to read for mafia based on previous dead mafia, the notion of busing or how to poe.

All you're learning is how to cc, and how to lynch inbetween ccs.

Fancy pants players are generally bad for a reason.


Which is why IMO, it should instead be the 4 Unranked games that you have to play before playing Ranked. And then, there should be a list of certain Ranked setups that earn points towards playing in Competitive.

If we had to, the lobbies could be split again. Competitive lobby would contain Competitive games and maybe the ranked games that earn points towards playing in Competitive. And then we keep the Main Lobby to contain regular Ranked games and Unranked games. And then Sandbox for whatever they do there. Comped lobby wouldn't (or shouldn't be) as dead as it use to because it will allow the people that want to play in Competitive in the future to play ranked games within it and earn points towards that.
deletedabout 9 years
make the point limit 10 million points just to absolutely ensure that there are no bad players in comp
Burial
about 9 years
just bring back the comp lobby, there are many good and competent players who do not give enough of a about pixel trophies to grind 50k points
Iceaac
about 9 years
the tracker/cop setup is an excellent seutp and should be played more imo
Loreli
about 9 years
Fancy pants isn't good at teaching anyone anything in any continuum. It's nice if you like casual mafia. Bar that, you're not learning how to scumhunt, how to be assertive, how to read through previous days, any really major mechanics, to read for mafia based on previous dead mafia, the notion of busing or how to poe.

All you're learning is how to cc, and how to lynch inbetween ccs.

Fancy pants players are generally bad for a reason.
xDrake
about 9 years

Skillz says

Fancy pants is a little hard for First Timers, I'd replace that with Classic Mafia. (Even though its still better than Fancy pants, but its not Multi)


I mean that's an idea as well. It doesn't really matter which one is played. But IMO, neither Fancy Pants nor Classic Mafia should give ranked points. Instead, they should be the 4 unranked games that you have to play before playing any ranked games (or any other unranked games).
deletedabout 9 years

xDrake says

Fancy Pants is useful in teaching the basic mechanics of how this game of Mafia is played, but it still doesn't teach or show the many possible scenarios of situations possible in the many Competitive setups. The issue that you mentioned in your OP is that people aren't learning the roles before coming in to play Competitive games, and while Fancy pants has some of the most popular roles used through Mafia games, it does not have all of them (Or at least all of the ones used in Competitive games).

Thus, IMO, something needs to be changed there. Either add another requirement, Play X amount of games of Fancy pants before unlocking other setups, or Prevent Fancy Pants from giving ranked points and make it the REQUIRED unranked setup that you have to play before playing any other unranked/ranked setups.


Fancy pants is a little hard for First Timers, I'd replace that with Classic Mafia. (Even though its still better than Fancy pants, but its not Multi)
xDrake
about 9 years
Fancy Pants is useful in teaching the basic mechanics of how this game of Mafia is played, but it still doesn't teach or show the possible scenarios of situations in the many Competitive setups. The issue that you mentioned in your OP is that people aren't learning the roles before coming in to play Competitive games, and while Fancy pants has some of the most popular roles used through Mafia games, it does not have all of them (Or at least all of the ones used in Competitive games).

Thus, IMO, something needs to be changed there. Either add another requirement, Play X amount of games of Fancy pants before unlocking other setups, or Prevent Fancy Pants from giving ranked points and make it the REQUIRED unranked setup that you have to play before playing any other unranked/ranked setups.
deletedabout 9 years

xDrake says

And the amount of points that are required to enter Comped isn't even the problem. People can play certain cheese setups the entire time for these points and never play any REAL setups to learn the roles and how they work. There needs to be a list of certain ranked setups that are required to play to earn points toward played comped games. This way, people can learned the roles used most often in Comped and from there should be able to figure out how most others work that they aren't too familiar with


This idea is good, but I disagree with you on one point..

Even Fancy pants, which is in my opinion one of the worst popular setups of all time, is useful for players who aren't good at Mafia. Because they're still playing Mafia, any kind of setup that isn't a pointfarm gives people experience, no matter how bad it is.
xDrake
about 9 years
And the amount of points that are required to enter Comped isn't even the problem. People can play certain cheese setups the entire time for these points and never play any REAL setups to learn the roles and how they work. There needs to be a list of certain ranked setups that are required to play to earn points toward playing comped games. This way, people can learn the roles used most often in Comped and from there should be able to figure out how most others work that they aren't too familiar with
deletedabout 9 years

Loreli says

If you don't thrust players into a competitive environment then they won't learn. When the minimum to enter comp was twice as much the players entering comp were not only fewer but worse, because they'd learnt to play classic mafia and because of that they had further ingrained bad habits.


They will be able to learn when they're forced into playing Ranked, when I was new I didn't instantly join Competitive when I was able to, I started playing loads of Ranked games until I became capable of playing Competitive, this is why I got a gold trophy in my first try running.
Loreli
about 9 years
If you don't thrust players into a competitive environment then they won't learn. When the minimum to enter comp was twice as much the players entering comp were not only fewer but worse, because they'd learnt to play classic mafia and because of that they had further ingrained bad habits.
xDrake
about 9 years
I agree with you that the entry point into Competitive game should be raised. But 50k is stupidly high, and I'm pretty positive you know this already lol. If the points payout increases for ranked games then 50k maybe wouldn't be so bad. Right now, it should be like somewhere between 8k-10k. That seems reasonable.
deletedabout 9 years
Like, someone said I gamethrew because I had an inno on Godfather, and I had to explain to him what a Godfather does..
deletedabout 9 years

xDrake says

50k points is way too much lol

But the entry point should probably be raised. And there should probably certain setups excluded for getting ranked points towards Competitive lobby

Also split the lobbies it's so annoying to have them all in the same place


50k Points isn't much at all, in all other legit games, winning a trophy is very valuable, and this year trophies in my opinion were very worthless..

We need to raise the value of the trophies, by stopping players with no experience except Fancy pants from playing Competitive and competing in a trophy.
xDrake
about 9 years
50k points is way too much lol

But the entry point should probably be raised. And there should probably certain setups excluded for getting ranked points towards Competitive lobby

Also split the lobbies it's so annoying to have them all in the same place
deletedabout 9 years
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