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Hollywood Illusions

about 9 years

Can this setup be blacklisted from comp.

First of all, it was never intended for comp, it's a setup that does not promote pure mafia. Rather it promotes the great strategy of doing absolutely nothing while the illusionist makes up their mind on who to shoot, which then comes up with the strategy for mafia to just purely waste town's time as well, which is quite frustrating whenever that does happen.

Putting that aside, it's played incorrectly. There is not one viable reason to nl d1. Yet despite this, players will refuse to play the setup the right way. I've played this setup countless times, so I think I should know how the setup is best played. Mafia are close to invulnerable d2, but very weak on d1, along with not knowing partners, and inability to use their gun without confirming a mafia. I've played enough games using the lynching d1 strategy with competent players that know how the setup is played, and while yes you can out some prs, you mislynch a fair amount of the time still, the benefits still far outweigh the disadvantages of playing this way.

So problem that nobody plays the setup correctly. And there is no move towards it being played correctly. Anyone who does has just got frustrated and stopped playing completely.

Also the games are absolutely disgusting, I swear the only scumhunting that ever gets done is based on act codes. I just had a game where 3 idiots assumed that actress had to be one of the two people who talked, that was the only read they came up with all game, I said they were idiots and that they were wrong on both counts, yet bleeder shoots obvious town and oh they were wrong? So their other read must be right because one of us HAS TO BE ACTRESS???? And obviously town loss because town are incompetent (plus throwing for zwink which has been obviously going on all round but beyond the point). There is hardly any scumhunting apart from this, plus there is no scumhunting going on d1, or until the illu shoots (because anyone who talks before the illu shot is mafia), so the time for actual scumhunting is effectively cut to nothing after all the actress bs. Also the fact that town can be utterly helpless when your bleeder is an incompetent **** who doesn't understand English, the games are truly a nightmare.

So blacklist HI, two guns, incompetent players, a setup that is played incorrectly, and you have to deal with Zwink all round, I'm struggling to see positives.

about 9 years
FTR this is meant to be automatically disallowed from comp due to the amount of guns in it. 1 is the maximum amount of guns allowed. If you want to break out the ACTUAL facts.
about 9 years
should I be taking that post seriously at all?
about 9 years
You all give boring strats.

If you don't trust your bleeder and think he'll misshoot and mislynch, then gun your tr outside bleeder. I won all games when I gunned alive non-bleeder player. He was clear on 4way or 3way with illu alive, I sometimes made it autowin town because there were pr and blue who got gunned and illu left alive, last game even won because the person I gunned omgus shot the person who pushed on him and flipped illu, the illu hasn't shot the gun but was about to shoot pr, the gunned rescued him. Softing on another person, gunning still the same, maf thought I gunned the person I softed and pushed on the person who was still gunned, omgus shot and town won.

About actress why do you act pr and tell the code to shoot pr? Isn't it safe to just hit bleeder, illu shooting his pr read, acting illusionist to confuse town even more when they look for the code which wasn't there, but actress was dead when they think the dead was illu.

The conclusion of this game is for actress to tr hard maf partner and call shot people actress, the illu saying that actress still alive and call all his fos'es actresses, but the town should know that illu gunned cannot shoot twice, that every role might be actress, that GS can guntest, leader shot means lynch outside leader and look next day if votes are anonymous, don't vote partner with anonymous votes so maybe town might flip the vote and these kinds of fiddling town and town insighting maf makes this setup unique and one of the most willingly played in comp.
about 9 years
is proper mafia play perfected in setups with 5 town 2 nilla? i feel like "pure mafia" will result in circlejerk
about 9 years

GuyFawkes85 says

And you can read for their code and their interactions...

and even if they hit pr, the bleeder already has the gun, the other pr is alive (it's already 2 clears) and you need to scumhunt in less people with more data

See, it's just different strats, it's not that one is bad and one is good. And playing it with one or the other strat is not a reason to blacklist (or not) the setup.

I don't even know why you want it blacklisted... it's one of the most balanced comp setups. The setups to blacklist are others.


"and you can read for their code"

dude you realise where that got town that game? how does a game where the scumhunting is purely about the actress code promote proper mafia play.

"you need to scumhunt in less players" - mafia can just not shoot the gun. that'd render that point completely invalid.

the strategy isn't why the reason should be blacklisted, the setup in itself is the reason it should be blacklisted. but the fact it isn't even played properly makes it so much worse.
about 9 years
And you can read for their code and their interactions...

and even if they hit pr, the bleeder already has the gun, the other pr is alive (it's already 2 clears) and you need to scumhunt in less people with more data

See, it's just different strats, it's not that one is bad and one is good. And playing it with one or the other strat is not a reason to blacklist (or not) the setup.

I don't even know why you want it blacklisted... it's one of the most balanced comp setups. The setups to blacklist are others.
about 9 years
akon - dont matter
about 9 years
so even though you can work that out...... you can't work out that actress will no longer appear mafia, illusionist can freely shoot and mafia have a shot at stalking a pr so the illlu can pew pew them..........
about 9 years
No, they can just hook cop, kill gs and lawyer inno's one of the mafias...

zzz
about 9 years
i think the setup is dumb
about 9 years
at least in a&d, the mafia dont become 20x stronger if you nl d1
about 9 years
the thing about people saying stupid stuff like lynch day 1 on a 8 man setup with just scumhunting because mafia won't know partners is that theres other setups for that, its like lynching day 1 on AnD, its more optimal but takes all the fun/purpose from the setup
deletedabout 9 years
It shouldn't be allowed.
about 9 years

GuyFawkes85 says

Just some of them:

- You can't read for interactions (maf don't know each other)
- You can't look for codes (some are very bad and obvious)
- If actress is on blue (more likely than on pr, 3 vs 2) you have 3 clears (bleeder plus 2 prs) and just need to be decent at scumhunting in blues to find the 2 mafia in 5 people (and you have a shot, too!)
- Gs didn't gun yet
- You out prs (or make maf fish them)

Lynching d1 should be the strat, IMO, only when there's a bleeder cc, since it gives you a confirmed maf.



You just stole all the points from that horrid strategy. I already went through each of those points in a game and how they're nowhere near valid points.

>gs didn't gun yet - well yeah town lynching is better than your incompetent bleeder shooting obvious town
about 9 years
Just some of them:

- You can't read for interactions (maf don't know each other)
- You can't look for codes (some are very bad and obvious)
- If actress is on blue (more likely than on pr, 3 vs 2) you have 3 clears (bleeder plus 2 prs) and just need to be decent at scumhunting in blues to find the 2 mafia in 5 people (and you have a shot, too!)
- Gs didn't gun yet
- You out prs (or make maf fish them)

Lynching d1 should be the strat, IMO, only when there's a bleeder cc, since it gives you a confirmed maf.
about 9 years
cant wait for brakes to come back and slay these dweebs
about 9 years
just because there are guns on both sides, how does that make everything fine? There are already arguments that gun setups should not be allowed in competitive full stop, 2 guns should just be absolutely a no go.

All of the reasons you give for shooting d2 are off-set by better reasons for lynching d1, and I have not heard one viable reason for nl'ing d1.
about 9 years
don't take the guns away from us
about 9 years
#CompFancyPants2016
deletedabout 9 years
what is it novel night
about 9 years
I don't agree...

Lynching d1 can be a good strat, I (and others) prefer shooting on d2, and there's several reasons for it.

The fact that people don't play the setup like you would is not a reason to blacklist it, and neither are the 2 guns (they're one on a side and one on the other).

Having to "deal with Zwink" should not even have been mentioned... I'd like to know why everybody thinks Zwink trophies because others throw for her, and not because she's good.

@poser, what's hedger's good point?
about 9 years
Also, we played one game together this round, and so you didn't have to deal with me but one time in which you joined the game I hosted ... Where you didn't suggest lynching d1 ... Lol.
about 9 years
I didn't blame you? wtf? I blamed the other players for throwing for you
about 9 years
>gets lynched by the clears ... Blames Zwink. Pro logic. *high fives*
about 9 years
hedger makes a good point