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A New Approach to EM's Comp

almost 10 years

It should come as no surprise to anyone that has played Competitive lately that the state of the game has deteriorated immensely, and in particular, the frequency of meta-friendships has increased greatly, mainly due to the smaller player-base. Meta-friendships have always been around, but only now has it gotten so out of hand that it's hard to find a single round in which it hasn't occurred. Personally, I blame pranay for stirring the pot and basically encouraging this sort of mentality as the 'optimal' way to win a trophy.

In order to resuscitate EM's competition and restore a sense of legitimacy to the game, we need to take a three-pronged approach to rectify the underlying issue.

Redefine Cheating - First, we need to segment the current definition of cheating. A general cheating definition is fine, as it covers the specific instances of outright cheating. However, we need a separate violation for Multi-accounting (in the same game), which should, in my opinion, be an instant ban. More importantly, however, we need to endorse meta-friendships. They are unpreventable and need to be outlined as an acceptable strategy.

What is a meta-friendship? A player joins with another player with the intent to help that other player win, so long as they still abide by their win condition (might want to rephrase this so it makes more sense in contrast to Gamethrowing). Yes, you heard me right, and you'll understand why shortly.

Limit Players to 10 Comp Games with Any Other Player in a Given Round - We need to somehow make this a rule. Ideally, lucid could code us something that bars entry into a competitive game that has a player the runner has already played 10 games with. Ideally, this would be account-wide, barring alts from swapping in. I think 10 is a very generous amount, but the point is still there: we can't stop meta-friendships, but we can limit how often you do it and with whom. We may not be able to stop Ruse, for example, from joining each other's games, but I think after 10 with the same person, it's reasonable to say their run has been, at the very least, boosted by that other player's presence. Anon games won't work to prevent meta-friendships, but this will.

More than likely, lucid will not be willing or won't be around to code this. So I suggest this be made an announced rule and mods simply warn players that pass 10 games and then suspend if they do it. Believe it or not, in any given round, it is actually hard to play more than 10 games with 1 player, if you are joining games randomly. We need this randomization to deter extensive meta abuse.

Remove/Limit GY Vision in Comp - This is the major one. This is the one method we have of curtailing serious cheating in EM competitions. Ideally, we have lucid code it so that GY vision in comp games is equivalent to a blue that is still alive (i.e. see nothing do nothing in night sequences). However, simply removing GY vision, at the cost of spectating, is still an effective solution. If you care about legitimate games, you should want this and suffer to review the game if you really want to spectate. Still, the ideal solution is a great one and allows for non-intrusive spectating.


TL;DR The only way to counteract excessive meta abuse by friends is to 1) redefine cheating by endorsing meta-friendships (and defining them), 2) limit the amount of meta-friendship directly by player-to-player, 3) remove GY vision as a viable tactic for undetectable, serious cheating.

Restore EM's Competitive Glory
7
Nay
3
Yay
deletedalmost 10 years
you take away a lot of the entertainment of mafia games if you remove the ability to spectate them as they go on. i'd argue that it probably would lessen the appeal and popularity of comp games. but that's just speculation.
almost 10 years
if you're going to turn it off for comp you should turn it off for red as well
almost 10 years
the idea is removing gy vision shouldn't be that hard of a site change. and it does more to stop cheating than no change at all
deletedalmost 10 years
I'm with Dev/slow. Just too big a loss. you can't prevent cheating, most you can do is discover it quickly and ban those involved.
almost 10 years

KEKKEKEKEKEKKK says

how is that a downside here? it doesn't matter if 100 or 50 ppl advance from one round to the next. yeah in some competitions there'll be 7 winners and in some there'll be 2. why is that a problem? all the winners will have needed to win several consecutive games before winning their final one.


except you can end up with not enough round-1 winners to fill a round-2 game

or just divisibility problems in general, if you have 13 people do you play a 6 and a 7? or a 13-person setup? seems awkward
deletedalmost 10 years
classic mafia d1: doc dies, cop outs a guilty. n2: mafia sacs. d2: cop investigates last mafia, tells doc who the mafia is in GY.

GY vision still exists.
almost 10 years

Ashelia says

getting rid of GY vision doesn't get rid of GY vision. what stops mafia from outing who the partners are in GY?


i think this is one drawback, but the person who does this would draw a lot of attention. anyone who outs mafia in gy are considered bad mannered to me already.
deletedalmost 10 years

vilden says


Devante says

removing gy vision is a bad idea, changing the way the gy visions won't really stop cheaters either


but the question is: why not remove it? the only thing it CAN do is stop potential gy vision.. I must be missing something here


Missing: Devante's effort to successfully cheat would have to rise.
deletedalmost 10 years
getting rid of GY vision doesn't get rid of GY vision. what stops mafia from outing who the partners are in GY?
deletedalmost 10 years

vilden says

the only way cheaters would have impact on a game is if one of the cheating accounts flips mafia in this case


there are more legitimate players who enjoy watching the game to see the town go haywire than there are people who exploit the graveyard system. Punishing the many because of the few isn't a good idea
almost 10 years

AdrenalineMime says


KEKKEKEKEKEKKK says

SGR had the perfect idea years ago. Make a competition that's round-based. The players from the winning team from each game advance to the next round. Everyone in the final winning team wins. Everyone always holds the same stakes, very few ppl will ever be throwing for friends in the finals as the game will be equally important for all of them. Also makes multiaccounting/throwing against other runners on alts much harder.


the only downside is that the # of winners in a game of mafia is lopsided



how is that a downside here? it doesn't matter if 100 or 50 ppl advance from one round to the next. yeah in some competitions there'll be 7 winners and in some there'll be 2. why is that a problem? all the winners will have needed to win several consecutive games before winning their final one.
almost 10 years
it can be just as entertaining not knowing alignments from gy
deletedalmost 10 years

ColdShower says


Blister says

no. maybe i actually want to see what the result of the game is once i die? don't take away my rights


But you can see the results after the game is done? Patience is a virtue dear.


yeah, i can see the results and flick through the game if i really want, but i actually find watching the events of the game unfold live to be an entertaining pastime and by the time the game's actually finished i don't care enough to go back.
almost 10 years
the only way cheaters would have impact on a game is if one of the cheating accounts flips mafia in this case
almost 10 years

Devante says

removing gy vision is a bad idea, changing the way the gy visions won't really stop cheaters either


but the question is: why not remove it? the only thing it CAN do is stop potential gy vision.. I must be missing something here
almost 10 years

mist says

i doubt it would make much of a difference. people who wanna cheat are gonna cheat.




i disagree. i think a lot of the less serious instances of cheating involve players sharing information from GY vision. the serious instances are the ones we have to compile evidence for regardless. the others we want to attempt to prevent systematically
almost 10 years
the primary gameplay is sandbox/custom lobbies with your friends playing crapshoots. main/comp is a side feature
almost 10 years

gistofeverything says

Are red hearts going to become the primary gameplay on epicmafia.com?


ahm, i think they always were?
deletedalmost 10 years
i doubt it would make much of a difference. people who wanna cheat are gonna cheat.
almost 10 years
i mean, whatever, it's an insignificant change either way
deletedalmost 10 years

Blister says

no. maybe i actually want to see what the result of the game is once i die? don't take away my rights


But you can see the results after the game is done? Patience is a virtue dear.
deletedalmost 10 years
removing GY vision only makes it harder to catch cheaters and takes away a feature from the rule-abiding public
almost 10 years
Are red hearts going to become the primary gameplay on epicmafia.com?
deletedalmost 10 years
no. maybe i actually want to see what the result of the game is once i die? don't take away my rights
almost 10 years

KEKKEKEKEKEKKK says

SGR had the perfect idea years ago. Make a competition that's round-based. The players from the winning team from each game advance to the next round. Everyone in the final winning team wins. Everyone always holds the same stakes, very few ppl will ever be throwing for friends in the finals as the game will be equally important for all of them. Also makes multiaccounting/throwing against other runners on alts much harder.


the only downside is that the # of winners in a game of mafia is lopsided