Back to Epicmafia

A New Approach to EM's Comp

almost 10 years

It should come as no surprise to anyone that has played Competitive lately that the state of the game has deteriorated immensely, and in particular, the frequency of meta-friendships has increased greatly, mainly due to the smaller player-base. Meta-friendships have always been around, but only now has it gotten so out of hand that it's hard to find a single round in which it hasn't occurred. Personally, I blame pranay for stirring the pot and basically encouraging this sort of mentality as the 'optimal' way to win a trophy.

In order to resuscitate EM's competition and restore a sense of legitimacy to the game, we need to take a three-pronged approach to rectify the underlying issue.

Redefine Cheating - First, we need to segment the current definition of cheating. A general cheating definition is fine, as it covers the specific instances of outright cheating. However, we need a separate violation for Multi-accounting (in the same game), which should, in my opinion, be an instant ban. More importantly, however, we need to endorse meta-friendships. They are unpreventable and need to be outlined as an acceptable strategy.

What is a meta-friendship? A player joins with another player with the intent to help that other player win, so long as they still abide by their win condition (might want to rephrase this so it makes more sense in contrast to Gamethrowing). Yes, you heard me right, and you'll understand why shortly.

Limit Players to 10 Comp Games with Any Other Player in a Given Round - We need to somehow make this a rule. Ideally, lucid could code us something that bars entry into a competitive game that has a player the runner has already played 10 games with. Ideally, this would be account-wide, barring alts from swapping in. I think 10 is a very generous amount, but the point is still there: we can't stop meta-friendships, but we can limit how often you do it and with whom. We may not be able to stop Ruse, for example, from joining each other's games, but I think after 10 with the same person, it's reasonable to say their run has been, at the very least, boosted by that other player's presence. Anon games won't work to prevent meta-friendships, but this will.

More than likely, lucid will not be willing or won't be around to code this. So I suggest this be made an announced rule and mods simply warn players that pass 10 games and then suspend if they do it. Believe it or not, in any given round, it is actually hard to play more than 10 games with 1 player, if you are joining games randomly. We need this randomization to deter extensive meta abuse.

Remove/Limit GY Vision in Comp - This is the major one. This is the one method we have of curtailing serious cheating in EM competitions. Ideally, we have lucid code it so that GY vision in comp games is equivalent to a blue that is still alive (i.e. see nothing do nothing in night sequences). However, simply removing GY vision, at the cost of spectating, is still an effective solution. If you care about legitimate games, you should want this and suffer to review the game if you really want to spectate. Still, the ideal solution is a great one and allows for non-intrusive spectating.


TL;DR The only way to counteract excessive meta abuse by friends is to 1) redefine cheating by endorsing meta-friendships (and defining them), 2) limit the amount of meta-friendship directly by player-to-player, 3) remove GY vision as a viable tactic for undetectable, serious cheating.

Restore EM's Competitive Glory
7
Nay
3
Yay
almost 10 years
ill take RL friends over internet trophy buddies.

also you're jonsnow. i find that thoroughly ironic, coming from you.
almost 10 years
Orly has no friends, that's why he's against meta-friendships lel.
almost 10 years
u guys are crazy

almost 10 years

Orly says


gistofeverything says

Are red hearts going to become the primary gameplay on epicmafia.com?


ahm, i think they always were?


That seems to have changed imo
deletedalmost 10 years
Designing his Mafia boardgame, probably.
deletedalmost 10 years
where oh where is mafiagod when you need him
almost 10 years

Anna says

Anyone who uses a friend to cheat is an idiot. You just easily cheat by using multiple browsers. You can use inbrowser VPNS/Proxies or even tor. You can't link the IP's and if you have enough accounts it is basically impossible to get caught. I guess I'm really damn good at it.


I knew anna was weareking or more likely abc
almost 10 years
it sounds like a fun and decent alternative, but i dont think it'll solve any long-term problems.

if only we could have non-standard tournaments that people still took seriously
almost 10 years

KEKKEKEKEKEKKK says


AdrenalineMime says

except you can end up with not enough round-1 winners to fill a round-2 game

or just divisibility problems in general, if you have 13 people do you play a 6 and a 7? or a 13-person setup? seems awkward


play a 9 ppl setup + https://epicmafia.com/setup/540619 ;]




Seriously though, making balanced/fun 13 ppl setups shouldn't be impossible. They just don't fit in main lobby due to high probability of trolls/vegs/etc ruining the game. They could work in the final round where everyone is taking the game seriously.
almost 10 years
lmfao
deletedalmost 10 years

vilden says


Ashelia says


vilden says

i'd like to make bets with other gy people who the mafia are. that makes it much more fun spectating than already knowing alignments and just waiting to see it all play out


you're not the average player, though. turning off GY vision as a feature is a fine idea though.


wait a frickin minute... who are you? you must be someone I know........


I am the former Princess of Dalmasca and the only daughter of King Raminas. I am the last true descendant of King Raithwall, the Dynast King.
deletedalmost 10 years

Jaleb says

Limits on the games with a player ruins the chances of playing enough games in a good setup.


no, it doesn't, like i said it just makes it harder to prove when GTing/meta abuse is taking place.
almost 10 years

Ashelia says


vilden says

i'd like to make bets with other gy people who the mafia are. that makes it much more fun spectating than already knowing alignments and just waiting to see it all play out


you're not the average player, though. turning off GY vision as a feature is a fine idea though.


wait a frickin minute... who are you? you must be someone I know........
deletedalmost 10 years

Jaleb says

Limits on the games with a player ruins the chances of playing enough games in a good setup.


the limit would be stupid no matter what idea is suggested to limit people playing together, without making a long post that will be taken as a complaining post:

how would you even regulate the idea? would there be a warning that says: "WHOA YOU PLAYED 10 hearts with player x you can't join anymore games with them"

If No, would the players need to keep track of how many times they play with each player? Would players alts counts? Would players then need to know every single players alt (mass access to foxie box to keep track of the people you play with)

didn't think so, so bad idea again.
almost 10 years
Limits on the games with a player ruins the chances of playing enough games in a good setup.
deletedalmost 10 years

Twist says

I have. People tab out.


i see more people spam "OH my GOD you piece of you shouldn't have mishammered i was 2/2 on d1" stuff in postgame than i do in comp anymore
deletedalmost 10 years

vilden says

i'd like to make bets with other gy people who the mafia are. that makes it much more fun spectating than already knowing alignments and just waiting to see it all play out


you're not the average player, though. turning off GY vision as a feature is a fine idea though.
deletedalmost 10 years
I have. People tab out.
deletedalmost 10 years

Twist says


Ashelia says

you take away a lot of the entertainment of mafia games if you remove the ability to spectate them as they go on. i'd argue that it probably would lessen the appeal and popularity of comp games. but that's just speculation.


I really doubt there'd be a noticable decrease in running mafia players just because they can't go nuts in the GY and prepare their hyper-mad rant about how the mafia are obvious, but that's just me.


have you played red hearts recently?
almost 10 years
e.g. cops that die with guilty reports, have knowledge that other gy players dont
deletedalmost 10 years

Ashelia says

you take away a lot of the entertainment of mafia games if you remove the ability to spectate them as they go on. i'd argue that it probably would lessen the appeal and popularity of comp games. but that's just speculation.


I really doubt there'd be a noticable decrease in running mafia players just because they can't go nuts in the GY and prepare their hyper-mad rant about how the mafia are obvious, but that's just me.
almost 10 years
i'd like to make bets with other gy people who the mafia are. that makes it much more fun spectating than already knowing alignments and just waiting to see it all play out
deletedalmost 10 years

vilden says

I agree, so it should be a competition change only


comp is the one that needs the highest comeback rate if we're being honest about epicmafia's future.
almost 10 years
I agree, so it should be a competition change only
almost 10 years

AdrenalineMime says

except you can end up with not enough round-1 winners to fill a round-2 game

or just divisibility problems in general, if you have 13 people do you play a 6 and a 7? or a 13-person setup? seems awkward


play a 9 ppl setup + https://epicmafia.com/setup/540619 ;]