Epicmafia

Investigation for Round 310

over 9 years

Togepi and myself collaborated on a pastebin to investigate Zwink, CocaCola, and RadioFire90 in Round 310. Understand that the pastebin itself isn't the cleanest; rather our two bins were just put into one big bin because Togepi and myself are exhausted (I myself apologize for the poor formatting in my half, it's pretty bad) Nevertheless, the evidence is there. Other evidence was submitted by another user as well which helped us reach our verdict. Three moderators (Togepi, Sims, and myself) were involved in agreeing to the following verdict:

We have not concluded that cheating occurred between Zwink, CocaCola, and/or RadioFire90. We did however, have reason to believe that meta abuse occurred in Round 310 within this group.

The Verdict: Cocacola is going to be banned from winning trophies for 3 months due to meta abuse in the form of playing in favour of another user (Zwink) over the course of a Round. RadioFire90 is innocent. Zwink will be allowed to trophy this Round.

Cocacola will still be allowed to play gold heart games during this trophy ban. We (Togepi, Sims & myself) believe that Zwink's run in Round 310 was not tainted enough by CocaCola's meta abuse and interference to justify stripping Zwink of any possible trophy that she might win this round.

For those questioning the length of ban: Meta Abuse varies from situation to situation. The three moderators involved in this did not think that applying a Cheating violation to CocaCola would be appropriate in this particular instance, so we felt that the most fitting consequence would be to apply a ban on winning trophies for 3 months--half of what a normal cheating violation calls for. CocaCola and all of their alts will also be monitored whenever they are playing games with Zwink from now on in Competitive Rounds.

Here is the pastebin created by Togepi and myself: http://pastebin.com/rwJkeA5d

deletedover 9 years

Even if they don't speak for actions, the statistical information provides a backbone that shows the meta abuse either didn't happen or didn't work

deletedover 9 years

I actually realized while cataloging reads one of my alignments was listed wrong in my data so the numbers in my initial data are just slightly off. There's one additional instance of CocaCola being mafia and Zwink being town where town wins.

Fixed stats if you're curious:

Nahdia says

Nahdia says

Interesting stats...

Games won as the same alignment: 11/14 (all but one of these is town)

Games CocaCola won when against Zwink: 5/9

Games Zwink won when against CocaCola: 4/9

Let's break it down a bit further.

Zwink's winrate when both CocaCola & Zwink are town: 11/13 or ~85%

Zwink's winrate when both CocaCola & Zwink are mafia: 1/1 or 100% (insufficient data and irrelevant anyway since they're both maf)

Zwink's winrate when CocaCola is town and Zwink is mafia: 1/4 or 25%

Zwink's winrate when CocaCola is mafia and Zwink is town: 4/6 or 66%

Zwink's winrate with CocaCola in their games overall: 15/23 or ~65%
Zwink's winrate throughout her run: 32/50 or 64%

Again, the numbers do not speak to CocaCola's actual actions in game. They're interesting to look at, but when you're dealing with a small sample size like 23 games they can also be misleading.

deletedover 9 years

blacksnakemoan says

rutab says

but statistical information is factual and telling

This is the most laughable assertion in this thread.

Well I'm rightfully assuming that Nat isn't lying about the information she gathered and I trust that it's accurate

CocaCola

over 9 years

The statistics are there mods. I did not abuse meta to throw games for Zwink. I was my own person. I do not know how you came to this verdict. I demand some sort of compensation in the middle ground that is fair.....

I will be at work for the next 10 hours..probably won't be able to respond.

blacksnakemoan

over 9 years

rutab says

but statistical information is factual and telling

This is the most laughable assertion in this thread.

CocaCola

over 9 years

Togepi says

CocaCola says

Like why was i not allowed to defend myself as I got crucified? why is zwink 100% innocent. why am I guilty? I didnt even do anything wrong. I beat zwink in games, she beat me, sometimes we both won. Being able to read another individual is NOT something that is bannable

Don't act like we did not talk on Skype or that you could have messaged me at any time during the investigation. I let you talk for a good 5-10 minutes while I was reading games and took everything you said into consideration. The last time that you messaged me was to ask if I could lock the thread since you thought that the investigation was over. Don't insult me by acting like I didn't give both of you the chance to state your cases; I gave you direct access to me.

Yes, we talked on skype, but i was only complying with what you asked of me. you never asked me to actually gather anything to defend myself or even gave me the least bit of information that i was going to be guilty of anything, because i did not even do anything wrong.

deletedover 9 years

This was a fun read... based on the statistics that Nat kindly gathered (and only them), it seems as if maybe the verdict was wrong. I haven't read any games and haven't read the pastebins , but statistical information is factual and telling. It seems like the "abuse" wasn't as bad as everyone thought it to be, at least.

deletedover 9 years

If only.

deletedover 9 years

sleep more

deletedover 9 years

A bit closer to 2 and a half, yeah.

deletedover 9 years

like 3 hours

deletedover 9 years

Calvin says

go to sleep

I did; I just woke up.

deletedover 9 years

Nahdia says

@UniversalStudios & TheeCake Here you go. I never filled out Zwink's reads on CocaCola since mods ended up deciding this was a more one-sided thing.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17938zViFA4AduRonVT0X5C0IYUo8HD5x9cwv8879hTs/edit?usp=sharing

Out of the four games CocaCola never outs a read, Zwink is always town except the time where he refuses to read her and she's lynched d1.

https://epicmafia.com/game/4157150/review - Never has a chance to out a read due to a fast d1 and Zwink dying n2
https://epicmafia.com/game/4157218/review - Never has a chance to out a read due to a fast d1 and Zwink dying n2
https://epicmafia.com/game/4157302/review - Refuses to read Zwink on d1 but she's lynched anyway
https://epicmafia.com/game/4160441/review - Is unsure on Zwink so never lists her alignment

go to sleep

deletedover 9 years

@UniversalStudios & TheeCake Here you go. I never filled out Zwink's reads on CocaCola since mods ended up deciding this was a more one-sided thing.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17938zViFA4AduRonVT0X5C0IYUo8HD5x9cwv8879hTs/edit?usp=sharing

Out of the four games CocaCola never outs a read on Zwink, Zwink is always town except the time where he refuses to read her and she's lynched d1.

https://epicmafia.com/game/4157150/review - Never has a chance to out a read due to a fast d1 and Zwink dying n2
https://epicmafia.com/game/4157218/review - Never has a chance to out a read due to a fast d1 and Zwink dying n2
https://epicmafia.com/game/4157302/review - Refuses to read Zwink on d1 but she's lynched anyway
https://epicmafia.com/game/4160441/review - Is unsure on Zwink so never lists her alignment

Togepi

over 9 years

CocaCola says

Like why was i not allowed to defend myself as I got crucified? why is zwink 100% innocent. why am I guilty? I didnt even do anything wrong. I beat zwink in games, she beat me, sometimes we both won. Being able to read another individual is NOT something that is bannable

Don't act like we did not talk on Skype or that you could have messaged me at any time during the investigation. I let you talk for a good 5-10 minutes while I was reading games and took everything you said into consideration. The last time that you messaged me was to ask if I could lock the thread since you thought that the investigation was over. Don't insult me by acting like I didn't give both of you the chance to state your cases; I gave you direct access to me.

Togepi

over 9 years

UniversalStudios says

Nahdia says

CocaCola refuses to read Zwink 1 time (town is lynching Zwink but he tries to keep her alive saying "I can read Zwink in later days" despite him usually having a read on Zwink on d1 if d1 isn't instant or n2 if a templar).

CocaCola never outs a read on Zwink before Zwink dies 3 times (though one of those a null read stated at the n2 templar meeting).

What are the game numbers for these 4 games?

Also what alignment was Zwink in these games?

If you oppose so much, why don't you do some actual work and then go through the games yourself?

TheeCake

over 9 years

Nahdia says

There are 15 games CocaCola has to form a legitimate read on Zwink (the other 8 are games Coca is either mafia or in one case they are templar partners). Of those...

CocaCola reads Zwink as town correctly 7 times.

CocaCola reads Zwink as town incorrectly 2 times.

CocaCola refuses to read Zwink 1 time (town is lynching Zwink but he tries to keep her alive saying "I can read Zwink in later days" despite him usually having a read on Zwink on d1 if d1 isn't instant or n2 if a templar).

CocaCola never outs a read on Zwink before Zwink dies 3 times (though one of those a null read stated at the n2 templar meeting).

CocaCola reads Zwink as mafia correctly 1 time. Notably this is their second game together.

CocaCola reads Zwink as mafia incorrectly 1 time. (It is not a strong read; he "policy lynches" Zwink d1 for claiming blue early)

Short version: reads Zwink correctly 8/15 times, doesn't read Zwink 4/15 times, reads Zwink wrong 3/15 times.

In the games where coca didnt out a read on zwink, what was zwinks alignment?

blacksnakemoan

over 9 years

bell says

what are u talking about

He's making a sexist joke about your lack of sexual satisfaction.

UniversalStudios

over 9 years

Nahdia says

CocaCola refuses to read Zwink 1 time (town is lynching Zwink but he tries to keep her alive saying "I can read Zwink in later days" despite him usually having a read on Zwink on d1 if d1 isn't instant or n2 if a templar).

CocaCola never outs a read on Zwink before Zwink dies 3 times (though one of those a null read stated at the n2 templar meeting).

What are the game numbers for these 4 games?

Also what alignment was Zwink in these games?

UniversalStudios

over 9 years

Twist says

Every statistics-related post you make just screams "CocaCola didn't do it!!"

A verdict Togepi, Giga13, and Sims unanimously got wrong.

deletedover 9 years

Another way to look at it if you're looking for CocaCola playing to Zwink's wincon:

CocaCola reads Zwink as town 9/15 games he needs to form a read on her. One time he refuses to lynch her though never outs a read. Twice he never has the chance to out a read on her. Once he has her as null and then she dies.

I will say having read Zwink's games, it's looks to me like CocaCola is hesitant to ever scumread Zwink. The two times he does misread her as town when she's mafia, Coca continually considers the possibility that Zwink could be mafia but never fully commits to it.

He also strongly resists ever letting Zwink be lynched on a mislynch, though there are only a few occasions when the situation arises. The major exception to this is when he policy votes her on d1 when she claims blue (she's town in this game), though he's notably off his game that entire match, even says so himself.

The only time he correctly hammers her as scum is their second game together. Weird that his ability to read her dwindles with time.

Zwink

over 9 years

CocaCola says

Round 301- I placed 11th in the competition. Not a single game was played with Zwink

Round 32- On my first account- I won gold trophy, not a single game was played with Zwink because Zwink probably hadn't even heard of EM yet.

I play to try to win competitions, never would i play against my own win conditions. I played by hardest, sure I had bad games, and I had good games. Some games I was exhausted because I work over 60 hours a week and only have time to play from 10pm-3am. i Still tried my heart out this round, I would have done just as well this round without Zwink. I feel like i should be allowed to prove that I can play and suceed competitively without Zwink. I did not play against my win condition, I used past games played to make reads on players. I used what is given like win percentages and what not to determine reads. I have my own tactics.

I had heard of EM around that time. Lol. I've been around for a VERY long time. ROFL. Tbh, I think you should let Coca run the next round without me anywhere near his games to prove he can do it alone. If he can, then I say unban the trophy thing.

deletedover 9 years

https://epicmafia.com/game/4170115

deletedover 9 years

Every statistics-related post you make just screams "CocaCola didn't do it!!"

deletedover 9 years

That reads to me as not very solid meta; definitely not abusing