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The Sims Method to Tryharding

almost 10 years

at mafia.

I'm Sims, aliases LetzShake & Shacky, alternate accounts Jupiter and Aesop. I play mafia. I also win at mafia. Sometimes I even moderate mafia. I'm writing this guide because I'm a mentor and I feel the need to spread my knowledge. This guide is meant for players of all skill levels, but only for ranked and competitive play. If you like this guide, shoot me 20 tokens.

There are many aspects to mafia. The town play and the mafia, play for starters. Playing as the town and as the mafia makes up the most important part of the game. How you play as town and mafia, though, sets apart the good players from the great players, and the great players from the bad players.

Universal tips.

Every single good player you will ever come across will tell you that being confident is the most important part of mafia. That's why I don't want to go too into detail about it. At the end of the day, being confident in your reads will be what makes you a good player. The reads don't have to be right. In fact, they'll be wrong more often than not. That's the nature of the game, but that doesn't matter.

Crypto goes over this extensively in the guide he wrote a couple of years ago. Being confident in your reads doesn't mean that you should never change them. You should constantly be reevaluating your reads and looking for new tells, but be confident in the reads that you do have. On top of that, never let someone pressure you into voting the opposite person. Vote someone because of your reads, not because of the pressure.

That was all really self explanatory and Crypto went over it extensively, which is why I'm glossing over it. Something that I think is just as important is your game presence. Don't be afraid to take control of the game, but don't be obnoxious. Most good players that you'll see will type a lot more than the rest. This isn't a coincidence. If you have something to say, say it. Don't pre-write your lines, you'll come off as forced, whether you're town or mafia. Play Epic Mafia like you would play Mafia in real life. Talk to the other people in the game as if you were face to face. This isn't forum mafia so you don't have the time to pre-plan everything you say, and you should take advantage of that as both town or mafia.

That has a lot to do with natural charisma. If you type as if it's a stream of consciousness and you don't hold anything back, people will be more likely to listen to you. They'll gravitate towards your reads and you'll come off as genuine. Personally, I think this is the most important part of playing as both town and mafia, and I also think it's what new players struggle with the most. It's the biggest hurdle to overcome as a player, because if you're in a room with players more experienced with you, you'll most likely be intimidated. You'll eventually find your voice over time, but learning to speak up is a huge step to becoming good. I want to stress this, though. Don't be obnoxious, don't caps lock when you don't need to, and don't be annoying.

Town play

That's about as far as I'll go with universal mafia tips. Anything that I haven't gone over, you can probably find in Crypto's guide.

I want to preface this section by saying I hate reaction testing. Reaction testing sucks, and any decent player will be able to react accordingly. If you're reading this guide you are probably (hopefully) playing gold heart games, and in gold heart games you'll be playing with players that will know how to react accordingly. Just don't do it, you'll get bad reads. I want to spend most of this section talking about my scumhunting process. Everyone's is different. It might take you a while to find your own, or if you're an experienced player already and reading this to see my perspective, you've already found your own. The way I scumhunt has changed pretty radically over the duration I've been playing this game.

Originally, I was a very socratic player. I would ask a bunch of questions regarding people's reads and I would try to deduce the mafia from there. I was very analytical, and I would read into every single detail. I can't stand this method. I don't think it helps, and while I was doing it, I don't think I was a good player. It might work for some people, but it didn't work for me, and I can't seriously recommend that playstyle. It works for some players such as SystemOverload and projectmatt (both good players), but I personally think that if you read into every single detail you're bound to trip yourself up.

I much prefer the Sims Scumhunting Method. The reason why I prefer the Sims Scumhunting Method is because it involves weeding out the BS. I guess my scumhunting style is pretty rigid, but it works, and I think it's way better than being over-analytical. For starters, if you any good player, 9 times out of 10 they'll say getting townreads are easier and more reliable than getting scumreads. They're right. If somebody says something townie, don't ignore it. I remember a few years back, I was in a game of O2R, and I was townread by Crypto for saying one line that I definitely wouldn't say as mafia. Yeah, that's a weird thing to remember, but it stuck with me, and it's a good mentality. Sometimes town players will drop a line that is either way too genuine, well thought out, or maybe just flat out dumb enough that they're undeniably town.

Actually scumhunting is a lot more difficult than town-hunting. This should be obvious. If the mafia aren't trying to act like a town, they aren't doing their job. It's your job to decipher which players are actually town and which are trying to act like town. That's how the game of mafia works. A huge part of actually scumhunting is deciding if someone is genuine. That's a pretty vague statement, though. You need to decide if someone speaks genuinely and if their reads are genuine.

Even though a part of scumhunting is deciding if someone is speaking genuinely, I don't recommend using it as the basis for your reads. Any half decent mafia player will be able to speak with a genuine tone. I went over it in the paragraph I wrote about game presence. Genuineness is a tool to use as both town and mafia, and the mafia will most certainly use it.

The other part of scumhunting is deciding if a player's reads are genuine. Look at their explanations, their voting patterns, and when they vote. Look for holes in someone's explanations of their reads. A lot of the time the mafia will either overcompensate with their explanations and start making stuff up, or they won't commit enough and barely provide any reasoning. I can't really describe what makes a player's reads good or bad because it's mostly subjective. That's especially true in 3 way lylos where the mafia can pretty much make up reasoning because it's all retrospective. As the game goes on, I prefer to look at what's already there as opposed to what the people in lylo are actually saying. Look for partner interactions, bad tunnels, and stuff like that. The less room for interpretation a tell has, the better. You want to look for tells that scream “no blue would ever do/say this.” That goes for partner tells, too.

Another large part of being town is towntelling. Crypto goes over that in his guide, so I'll keep this part short. Read what I said about game presence over again. Play like you're talking to the other players face to face. Use your natural charisma.

Mafia play

I've already written a lot and I'm getting tired, so I want to keep this short. Play mafia as if you were town. A lot of people will tell you to emulate your town play, but instead of emulating your town play, just play as if you were town. Create reads that you would if you were town. Push on the town's scumreads. I would say mafia is the more difficult role to play, but you're allowed to get away with a lot more.

If you really want to improve your mafia game, start focus on being natural. I know I said don't emulate your town play, but if you aren't confident in your mafia play, that's how you should start. I say this because after a while, acting like a town will come naturally. It takes a lot of practice to nail down your mafia play. You need to strive to be unreadable. Don't give the town any information, and whatever information you do give, make sure it's hard to read into. Don't be afraid to interact with your partner, don't be afraid to make up some reads (as long as they're believable), and don't be afraid to point out your own towntells.

Also, as a rule of thumb, whenever I out a read as mafia, I always make sure that I have a reason to back it up with, regardless of whether or not I out the reason. It's a good way to practice making sure you have reasons as mafia, and if someone asks you for your reasoning you won't be screwed.

How to improve

I guess you could say this entire guide would be how to improve, but it will only get you so far. Like I said, I started off as an absolutely awful player, but I improved over time enough to the point where I can call myself good at the least. The way I improved was by playing with players that were better than me and recreating what I saw. I learned from like Crypto (who I mentioned multiple times and wrote the guide I referenced), Soben, and Maxwell, but I wouldn't say they taught me how to play. You should always be looking to improve. Play with better players and learn from them. You'll eventually find your own play style and mix what you learned from them with your own habits, and you'll be a better player for it.

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almost 10 years
I see
almost 10 years
are you still struggling to break 50% farming fancy pants?
almost 10 years
You are obvious as mafia, buddy.
deletedalmost 10 years
mafia is a subjective game and the only time you should really ever want to go postal on a player who's actually trying to win the game is when they make an objective mistake, such as not realizing someone's mechanically clear, allowing mafia to force a NL at lylo, etc etc
deletedalmost 10 years

Aesop says

ironically i shoot in cops in a&d more often than not : )


its funny because there's a big difference between advocating it and actually doing it yourself. suggesting people do it is dumb in almost every situation
deletedalmost 10 years

Sims says

confidence is a hard thing to explain, especially when a lot of people will misconstrue it as being an obnoxious loser. i think it boils down to trusting your own reads without being arrogant about them


it's a personal feel thing. personally, i want people to know i'm arrogant about my reads, but i also want them to know it's the i-told-you-so kind of arrogance and not the please-kill-yourself-you-idiot kind of arrogance, which is only reserved for players that do something that's so mechanically incorrect that it ruins games. you know, like giga lynching in trackers in that game the other day.
almost 10 years
ironically i shoot in cops in a&d more often than not : )
deletedalmost 10 years
"Don't give the town any information, and whatever information you do give, make sure it's hard to read into."

this is a line i disagree with. as scum, sometimes your only chance is to say the thing that helps town the most, especially if the other players in the game know that you're a useful player who understands the game. for instance, if i'm playing a&d with shacky, and he's suggesting the clear shoots into cop claims on day 1, i'm going to scumread him every time because i know he isn't an idiot.
almost 10 years
confidence is a hard thing to explain, especially when a lot of people will misconstrue it as being an obnoxious loser. i think it boils down to trusting your own reads without being arrogant about them
deletedalmost 10 years
also, i think you could do a better job of explaining "being confident", because so many people equate confidence with yelling their reads repeatedly and insisting that theyre correct.

i think the best manifestation of confidence is the attitude of "if i get to pick the lynch, i'm going to get it right," because being overly forceful in your reads is the easiest way to get people to ignore them
deletedalmost 10 years
i also constantly out PR reads regardless of alignment and with the exception of the rare training player that thinks i'm fishing they're universally viewed as town at best and self preservationist at worst, both of which are useful
almost 10 years
remove my violation, shorty
deletedalmost 10 years

Rutab says

I've been using your town play unintentionally for a few months now, and I still have not perfected it. I don't know if you remember my games with you Shacky, but usually I just start outing a lot of town reads when I am town. My biggest issue is explaining to the rest of the town why I town read certain people; I can't usually explain it to them because it's just the feeling, or one line like you mentioned. I am trying to figure out a surefire way that this method works and I can be convincing with it.

Great guide, it certainly will help players get a grip on competitive play instead of blindly going in. If not used as direct instruction, at least they'll have something to look at. Nice job.


if you're not sure why you townread someone, be honest about that fact. the honesty is where the actual value comes from

i constantly out metareads and what-i-would-do-if-i-were-this-person reads and in spite of not being inherently towny things to do i often get townread for them because of my genuinity
almost 10 years
while i agree that playing too socratically (?) can ultimately be a hindrance, it's useful in the content it can generate. you ultimately just have to utilize what is relevant and ignore what isn't. i've always felt i played better when interacting more with players in the beginning and using more of a "sims style" approach towards the end when you have to start weighing out relevant information.

i like that you bashed reaction testing because i think most of the time it just sets up scumplayers to towntell and muddies reads. you wind up asking yourself "would [player] do that as town/mafia?" and i think most of the time that's a worse line of thought than "what did [player] do that was town/mafia?"

and i agree that emulating your town playstyle is a bad approach unless you're consistently townread as town, then perhaps it's intuitive. most players aren't going to have a solid meta on you and most that try and use meta get inconsistent results. so i'd focus more on catering to players that are gonna help you win if you show them qualities they think are town-like.
almost 10 years
i had 61% 3 days ago and fancy pants isn't really that bad, just mindless
deletedalmost 10 years
You have a 55.9 percent win rate on Aesop. The "losing streak" is just random variance. Fancy pants is disgusting.
almost 10 years
i actually don't mind fancy pants, it helps me get back into the groove of things. you can see i'm on a losing streak on aesop
deletedalmost 10 years

Sims says

norepinephrine sabotaged you by not knowing the cop but i've been on tilt lately so i'm taking a break and only playing fany pants


This is the stupidest sentence ever. It was one bad game which was almost entirely my fault for missing the claim. Definitely don't switch to fancy pants you might as well self delete again
almost 10 years
norepinephrine sabotaged you by not knowing the cop but i've been on tilt lately so i'm taking a break and only playing fany pants
deletedalmost 10 years
As good as shacky is at mafia, he is not very good at reading me /potshot
deletedalmost 10 years
I've been using your town play unintentionally for a few months now, and I still have not perfected it. I don't know if you remember my games with you Shacky, but usually I just start outing a lot of town reads when I am town. My biggest issue is explaining to the rest of the town why I town read certain people; I can't usually explain it to them because it's just the feeling, or one line like you mentioned. I am trying to figure out a surefire way that this method works and I can be convincing with it.

Great guide, it certainly will help players get a grip on competitive play instead of blindly going in. If not used as direct instruction, at least they'll have something to look at. Nice job.
deletedalmost 10 years
He disagrees with crypto's "socratic" scumhunting approach and basically crypto's entire approach to scum play. He mentions crypto's guide a little too often, but content wise I think they are dissimilar, if you actually read them.
almost 10 years
there's some overlap but i don't think they're the same thing
almost 10 years
This was really just you telling us to read cryptos guide, maybe shorten it to like 5-6 dot points that you can add extra to his guide because its really a bunch of filler, no offence
deletedalmost 10 years
Someone give this man 20 tokens