Epicmafia

Fancy Pants Popularity

almost 10 years

Pls tell me why this setup is the most popular setup in Main Lobby. I would like to hear from players who are new or from those who predominantly play the setup. When I joined, Classic was the most popular setup in Training Lobby and I played a ton of it, but now FP has pretty much overtaken the lobby in red hearts.

I know what the old / comp players think, but I'd really like to hear from the people who play it regularly so I can understand why FP has become the preeminent epicmafia setup.

This isn't a thread meant to bash FP, but rather try to understand why it is so popular with the "silent majority" of the site.

Thank you.

deletedalmost 10 years

fancy pants is a bad setup and it'd be nice to have a wider variety of setups to play but i dont think its fair to dictate what other people use their red hearts to play. people would just move to classic mafia if fancy pants was blacklisted anyhow.

deletedalmost 10 years

i've been playing it because its the only setup that fills quickly. i just dont have the patience to wait a long time for games to fill.

deletedalmost 10 years

FIRST: You know fancy pants looks simple, but there are so many posabilities and strategys, of course U always nl d1 unless gunned, soft etc, but I have stumbled across some very cool times, where you need a skill to get out of deeps**t yourself, so first of all its strat is not complete, it always need improvisation.

SECOND: Its close to classic mafia, something that ppl are familiar with, so if you just read the desc of prs, and the basic strat you can play this.

THIRD: As I said, this setup spread like a bw, some ppl started playing it, and others followed.

Now about this setup being townsided, well you see, when we see a new setup its so interesting etc, but then you play it, and play it and you get an algoritm of how to win, and now people know better what to do as town, so the challenge in on the mafia, couse town just follows a meta-path, so this setup now is not interesting, you already know the posabilities, but thats for town. For the mafia it holds a bigger challenge becouse ccing cop is hard, I mean like getting a legit report is hard. So what to do you ask? Make a new setup which is a variation of fancy pants. Here is a good one I made, use this https://epicmafia.com/setup/1152422

originoflove

almost 10 years

Classic is usually over in like 5 minutes, Fancy Pants is a deeper kinda game.

thebrontosaurus

almost 10 years

FireDagger says

long post

Yeah, I feel you. It can be frustrating when close to nothing else fills. Red hearts in the lobby almost automatically default to FP hearts, or maybe Coco's, G&H or CM. Nothing else really is that popular anymore in reds.

JaTW was very popular in training lobby for a while. Honestly the best way to make a setup popular is to invest time in spamming games of it in the lobby and playing it enough so that it gains some popularity and that enough people learn how to play it to teach others. There are so many setups on EM that it's easy to overlook a lot of them.

While personally, I'd love to blacklist FP a few days out of the week for the sake of diversity, I don't know if upsetting those who play it will do much once it's allowed again. Nor do I think it's fair to say "You can't play this setup because there are better setups to be played". It's one thing if it's incredibly imbalanced or a pointfarm, but if it's not then mod interference isn't really a good idea.

Thanks for all the input though, I appreciate it.

Uprizzle

almost 10 years

Another reason I think Fancy Pants is so big is that it's not that far of a deviant from the types of Mafia and/or Werewolf that people have usually had experience playing in real life with their own friends. Villager/Mafia/Cop/Doc/Oracle/Gunsmith/Bomb. All are roles that at least I have typically seen in games of real life mafia, and also their respective counterparts for at least some of them in Werewolf. So Fancy Pants (and classic has this too) has the advantage of using roles that people are already familiar with, so if they are a newer player, they don't really have to ask around to everyone in the game to find out what their role does.

deletedalmost 10 years

Most of this posts

FireDagger

almost 10 years

I might be as well overwhelmed by my hate for that setup ;( idk. I just want people to play more setups, that is all lel.

FireDagger

almost 10 years

thebrontosaurus says

Hi Areg - fair point, it's easy to pick up setups that most everyone knows how to play.

Hey Firedagger, while I agree that it would be good for bringing other setups into the limelight a bit more, you don't want to alienate people who come on EM solely to play FP (which is a lot of people now).

I think blacklisting it would cause more trouble than it's worth to try and get people into competition. When we discussed the lobby merge, a lot of the comments against "forcing" people into comp is that a lot of people simply wanted to play red heart games because they were shorter and more casual. Not everyone wants to move up into comp.

The only reason mods should blacklist FP is if it gets too townsided (it's really pushing the limits)

I know that the majority of the community is not interested in playing competitive games but that's not the main problem i want to highlight. I am talking about people who are playing the same setup and any other persons who want to play red games, but not Fancy Pants, cannot fill their games due to its existence. Let's say "Jingle All the Way". It's a fun setup and it's not that hard if you know what Journalist/Caroler/Spy should do/contact. But people are not even thinking about playing something knew because just the simple existence of that setup. For example, if I now host that setup(Kinka's), I will have to wait long enough to be filled if there are other FP open. Those have to fill first in order to get my game filled. And even worse, people refuse to acknowledge some basic stuff like WIFOM, hedger was totally right when he once said that wifoming or roleswapping with new players is a horrendous idea. They will get the wrong idea. And Fancy Pants does not require and scumhunting skill, (maybe at 3 way if it's not auto already or if cop dies n1).

thebrontosaurus

almost 10 years

also i forgot i made this a while ago, but maybe it'll at the very least improve balance a little bit (like when i made guns n hookers)

https://epicmafia.com/setup/1051371

thebrontosaurus

almost 10 years

Good point, cross-checking is something that really only ever happens in CM since most 7-8 player setups typically don't have cop cc's as part of a standard strategy. In 10 man you lynch day 1 between the cc's anyway, so cross checking seldom comes up.

ENJOYURLOSS

almost 10 years

My guess is because the setup is a) more relaxed than classic, b) slightly more fun with the variation of PRs, allowing for more room to play

Most people hate cc'ing, and in fancy pants maf doesn't necessarily have to cc cop to win, as doc is usually not in the game. There's no need to "cross-check," a tactic that somehow manages to confuse players. And it gives everyone the chance to soft: maf can soft d1 pretending to be cop, bomb can soft pretending to be cop, cop can soft guilty, etc..

That being said, the setup is still boring af and usually comes down to a 50/50 hammer.

thebrontosaurus

almost 10 years

Uprizzle says

I think the big appeal of Fancy Pants is that it's the same size as classic mafia and has the potential to be classic mafia, but has the potential for variety to make it not just boring classic mafia. So the thing of not knowing what PR to expect and things like that adds a whole new aspect to the game. How the people play the setup isn't really what matters, since there's already somewhat of a pre-established norm of usually NLing on day 1 in most cases etc. But the reason it's popular is basically what I said above: the similarity to classic yet still having enough different variables to separate it from classic. That's all just my view on it, though, and I don't play Fancy Pants as often as I used to.

Good post, and yeah that makes sense. Thanks Uprizzle.

thebrontosaurus

almost 10 years

Hi Areg - fair point, it's easy to pick up setups that most everyone knows how to play.

Hey Firedagger, while I agree that it would be good for bringing other setups into the limelight a bit more, you don't want to alienate people who come on EM solely to play FP (which is a lot of people now).

I think blacklisting it would cause more trouble than it's worth to try and get people into competition. When we discussed the lobby merge, a lot of the comments against "forcing" people into comp is that a lot of people simply wanted to play red heart games because they were shorter and more casual. Not everyone wants to move up into comp.

The only reason mods should blacklist FP is if it gets too townsided (it's really pushing the limits)

Uprizzle

almost 10 years

I think the big appeal of Fancy Pants is that it's the same size as classic mafia and has the potential to be classic mafia, but has the potential for variety to make it not just boring classic mafia. So the thing of not knowing what PR to expect and things like that adds a whole new aspect to the game. How the people play the setup isn't really what matters, since there's already somewhat of a pre-established norm of usually NLing on day 1 in most cases etc. But the reason it's popular is basically what I said above: the similarity to classic yet still having enough different variables to separate it from classic. That's all just my view on it, though, and I don't play Fancy Pants as often as I used to.

FireDagger

almost 10 years

AregVrt says

FireDagger says

Sup Bronto Boy,

Nice to hear you again. You haven't been staying with us, the mortals during the last few months but that's irrelevant. Here's my problem.

I strongly recommend mods blacklist Fancy Pants. There might be people who will be disappointed, but you cannot bring other good setup in the light as long as this setup who's mostly played by new and some competitive players is being play 24/7. You cannot possibly host other "red-hearted" games as long as that setup overwhelms any other attempt of playing a larger variety of setups.

To be honest I'd rather recommend mods to at least blacklist that setup 1 or 2 days a week. This way some new setups might be brought in the lights. That's my opinion. You might agree or disagree or even agree to a certain extent but it is really the best thing to do for our community to develop. You cannot form good competitive players with a setup like that. There are X players who come to play golden hearts and they find themselves incapable of scumhunting or properly read someone because they are playing same setup over and over again and they have already formed a pattern inside their mind which they strictly follow.

My solution would be its blacklist for like 1 or 2 days a week. Mods should give it a try. It might work out pretty well. I hope my post to be negged by the majority but it is indeed for the wealth of this site.

(Sorry if I made any grammar / language mistakes, I am not a native speaker.)

I hope I made my point of view understood. Thank you. Please answer back.

Sincerely,
FireDagger

ppl will just play classic

Basic setup (no multi) should only be played by new players in order to get the basics. I think mods should add an upper limit after which you are restricted from playing that setup. Let's say 7.5k would be good enough.

deletedalmost 10 years

FireDagger says

Sup Bronto Boy,

Nice to hear you again. You haven't been staying with us, the mortals during the last few months but that's irrelevant. Here's my problem.

I strongly recommend mods blacklist Fancy Pants. There might be people who will be disappointed, but you cannot bring other good setup in the light as long as this setup who's mostly played by new and some competitive players is being play 24/7. You cannot possibly host other "red-hearted" games as long as that setup overwhelms any other attempt of playing a larger variety of setups.

To be honest I'd rather recommend mods to at least blacklist that setup 1 or 2 days a week. This way some new setups might be brought in the lights. That's my opinion. You might agree or disagree or even agree to a certain extent but it is really the best thing to do for our community to develop. You cannot form good competitive players with a setup like that. There are X players who come to play golden hearts and they find themselves incapable of scumhunting or properly read someone because they are playing same setup over and over again and they have already formed a pattern inside their mind which they strictly follow.

My solution would be its blacklist for like 1 or 2 days a week. Mods should give it a try. It might work out pretty well. I hope my post to be negged by the majority but it is indeed for the wealth of this site.

(Sorry if I made any grammar / language mistakes, I am not a native speaker.)

I hope I made my point of view understood. Thank you. Please answer back.

Sincerely,
FireDagger

ppl will just play classic

FireDagger

almost 10 years

Sup Bronto Boy,

Nice to hear you again. You haven't been staying with us, the mortals during the last few months but that's irrelevant. Here's my problem.

I strongly recommend mods blacklist Fancy Pants. There might be people who will be disappointed, but you cannot bring other good setup in the light as long as this setup who's mostly played by new and some competitive players is being play 24/7. You cannot possibly host other "red-hearted" games as long as that setup overwhelms any other attempt of playing a larger variety of setups.

To be honest I'd rather recommend mods to at least blacklist that setup 1 or 2 days a week. This way some new setups might be brought in the lights. That's my opinion. You might agree or disagree or even agree to a certain extent but it is really the best thing to do for our community to develop. You cannot form good competitive players with a setup like that. There are X players who come to play golden hearts and they find themselves incapable of scumhunting or properly read someone because they are playing same setup over and over again and they have already formed a pattern inside their mind which they strictly follow.

My solution would be its blacklist for like 1 or 2 days a week. Mods should give it a try. It might work out pretty well. I hope my post to be negged by the majority but it is indeed for the wealth of this site.

(Sorry if I made any grammar / language mistakes, I am not a native speaker.)

I hope I made my point of view understood. Thank you. Please answer back.

Sincerely,
FireDagger

deletedalmost 10 years

Well its famous becouse everyone plays it, it spreaded like a wild bandwagon.

Also hi bronto xD