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a suggestion for the competition

deletedalmost 10 years

hello gamers,

billstickers here with the first Actual Serious Thread of my life. i've been mulling this idea for a while now and would like some feedback. it seems like most of the things we actually bother talking about as issues w/ this site are only addressed when something goes wrong; this isn't one of those cases. this is an attempt to streamline the competition and make life easier and more rewarding for both players and moderators.

current competitive system:

  • 5 gold hearts per day, gold hearts cap at 10
  • round ends once someone crosses the 2000 point threshhold (8-13 days)
  • ties extend the round 1 day

proposed change:

  • joining the competition grants a player 50 gold hearts

  • round lasts 10 days; top 3 scores at the end of the 10 day period are your trophy winners

  • ties are the same i guess idk what to do with them

why its good for the site as a whole

  • normalization of the round time and point structure lend more credibility to the competition. no longer will we refer to rounds as "that time soben closed the round in 7 days" or "that time turquoise took 12 days to win gold on reverse mafia". also, we can actually judge trophy performances against one another because everyone will have to play the same amount of games

  • empirical ways to judge setups. is this the third time in a row that SnL was comped and someone won with a winrate over 80%? maybe this is a town pointfarm after all

why it's good for runners:

  • flexibility with regard to when/how frequently hearts must be played. running is a significant time investment and this would allow players to organize their run around their actual lives. i think we've all been in situations in which we were out of it and didn't want to play hearts, or were running hot and would have happily reeled off 10 or 12 games in a row.

  • the option to more selectively choose tables due to the lack of pressure to play x amount of games per day

  • players that run on multiple accounts can more accurately gauge how well they're doing and choose which account to push forward for the run. rather than attempting to read the round based on how people are doing on day 3 or 4, players enter the competition with the specific finite knowledge of when the round will end and roughly how well they'll have to do

  • there's been a lot of talk about Manhunt recently, what with a lot of last round's runners switching over to Manhunt on the last day to try and catch up in points. this would alleviate if not entirely eradicate that issue by removing most of the scenarios in which someone looks at the leaderboard and says "i have one heart and sidekick is 90 points ahead of me, i need a solo killer win"

  • players can still play their 5 hearts a day, exactly as they do now, if they so choose. proponents of the current system don't have to change anything they do

  • ability to mitigate your personal stress levels by playing all your hearts early if you so choose

why it's good for casual players

  • you aren't limited by the daily heart limit. i know i'm speaking for myself and a few others when i say it sucks that sometimes you can't play mafia for 4-5 days due to real life commitments but are capped at 10 gold heart games the day you want to start playing again

  • encouragement for new/casual runners: maybe you're just some dude who just wants to play some mafia and realize you're 20-7 on day 4. why not go for the trophy? maybe you had to work all week and played 8 hours on a saturday and won 70% of your games. why not go for the trophy?

  • you can actually play mafia w/ your friends when you feel like it instead of being constrained by some competinerd schedule

why its good for moderators

  • no more last-day-of-round crunch. no more (or at the very least, a lot less) runners freaking out at you over skype and PMs on the last day of the round as they try to get refunds before they run out of time. no more excessive last day scrounging. no more headaches

  • no need to pause the round every time there's a cheating accusation; just freeze the account(s) in question. no need to waste everyone's time unless someone only decides to cheat on the last day.

  • easier to spot suspicious accounts and winrates. more people are gonna take notice of a guy going 17/20 than a guy going 4/5 4 days in a row with the same players. theoretically, games involving the same players would cluster together more, seeing as it takes two people to cheat and theoretically cheaters also have time constraints. this is mostly conjecture on my part but i think it would make cheating stand out more.

  • should spread the overall report burden more evenly through the round, although again, also conjecture

arguments against that i've thought of

  • people would probably buy less alts or something so lucid would lose money

  • reactionary internet libertarians will blame every bad game they have on vancy because he changed something instead of leaving it the same

  • itd be a lot easier to play with the same people regularly and "meta abuse" - personally, i don't think there's validity to this, because people already do that and all this change would do is make it a bit easier on their schedules, but seeing as playing with the same people constantly isn't against the rules i think it's kind of moot

  • if someone straight up crushes a round and is sitting at 43-7 on day 5 people might lose incentive to play the last few days of the round - the rare scenario in which this format prolongs the round instead of shortening it. i think the good outweighs the bad here, as it's worth going 10 days instead of 9 once every dozen rounds in exchange for no more 13 day jan 2.0 miseryfests

i would really appreciate some constructive feedback here; i know this isn't anywhere near a hot-button issue but i think it's in all of our best interests to always be on the lookout for ways to improve the site. thanks for your time!!!

what do you think of this proposed change to the competitive structure?
22
it'd improve the competition
3
who cares
0
it'd make the competition worse
deletedalmost 10 years
Hi bronto, I'm stalking you
almost 10 years
hey Arc can you help me make a TL;DR version of this? I'll dress it up and send it to Phil. I'll cc you on the email.
almost 10 years
Exciting.
almost 10 years
I really like this idea. good work, Bill. I'll email lucid about it to see.
deletedalmost 10 years
was mitch the one who wanted to do tribunal-style reports lmao
deletedalmost 10 years
this is pretty similar to what i remember mitch was going for with scumhunt live before that bombed.
deletedalmost 10 years
who wants to play a game of scumhunt live with me?
deletedalmost 10 years
scumhunt live
almost 10 years
OK
almost 10 years
i didn't say it was a bad thing
almost 10 years

Hibiki says

the argument i've always seen against this is that it allows people to run the tables a-la crypto on vdli


What
almost 10 years
10 is indeed more average, though i wonder if it'd feel like a slap in the face to hit the 2000 mark at 45 hearts and then feel required to play 5 more games just so you don't lose the lead

o and that
deletedalmost 10 years
actually, i probably shouldve looked at more of the data. the 9/10 split is roughly even. id say 9 day rounds should be on the table in that case
deletedalmost 10 years

Goodbar says

i think we've all been mulling this idea for awhile. the reservations i'd have are pretty minimal and in theory it sounds like a good idea that's worth trying out. however i'd cap the round at 9 days and 45 hearts just because rounds have always been a large investment of time and this is a minor mitigation to that time investment while allowing us to go through rounds on even 10 day schedules (1 day grace period).


i like the idea of even 10 day schedules but we both know there's no way to stick to the schedule with ties and cheating pauses in existence and my autism would flare the first time we broke the perfectly aligned 10 day schedules

as far as 9 days vs 10 i think it's fairest to keep the round closest to average round length just because we're all used to the rough sample size of games required for a run and the rounds that end in 9 days or less are few and far between
almost 10 years
i think we've all been mulling this idea for awhile. the reservations i'd have are pretty minimal and in theory it sounds like a good idea that's worth trying out. however i'd cap the round at 9 days and 45 hearts just because rounds have always been a large investment of time and this is a minor mitigation to that time investment while allowing us to go through rounds on even 10 day schedules (1 day grace period).
almost 10 years
Yeah, I don't see where having like a trial round for this would be an issue at all, unless coding really is that big of a hassle.

I mean like why not, just see how it goes, if it bombs then whatever, the idea ended up not working out, if it doesn't end up bombing, its a legitimate idea that could be used from now on.

I imo just don't want to see another good idea go into the depths of nowhere lol
deletedalmost 10 years

animegayboy69 says

i dunno if having an open schedule is necessarily the bset thing, as it is it's a complete pain in the butt to fill games during the evenings anyway. worry that people will just cluster their games making it harder to play outside of certain times


it's possible, although i think the majority of people are going to play within their specific time bands regardless of the system in place. filling games around 8am est is always a chore and probably always will be, for instance. that said, if your weekday gaming times are an issue you'd theoretically have the chance to catch up on the weekend
almost 10 years
i dunno if having an open schedule is necessarily the bset thing, as it is it's a complete pain in the butt to fill games during the evenings anyway. worry that people will just cluster their games making it harder to play outside of certain times
almost 10 years
This is actually a pretty good idea, I rarely run because I'll always miss 2 or 3 days and waste 10-15 hearts in the process, having those set hearts would be kinda nice.
deletedalmost 10 years
another added bonus that i didn't really think of: it solves the issue a lot of people have with red heart games not being serious enough, because it's really difficult to ever be at a loss for hearts, especially if you have an alt or four
deletedalmost 10 years
It'd make it pretty easy to catch throwers since they'd have a significant streak of losing in really sketchy scenarios. It's just an expansion (sort of) of our current system and doesn't really limit the number of gold heart games people can play.

Sounds like a really well thought out idea.
deletedalmost 10 years
my suggestion would be, if people like the idea, to try it for one round and see how it goes. i know for a fact its super super easy to code because all you have to do is change a couple coefficients
deletedalmost 10 years

Hibiki says

people who throw get punished. it should be a nonfactor imho


yeah but he's got a point in the sense that it's a lot harder to just say "im just gonna wait for petermh to play out his hearts before i look for games today" because that guy isn't running out of hearts

granted, if you're like myself or any of the other people here who are employed and/or in school you sometimes don't have the luxury of dodging those people under the current system either
almost 10 years
people who throw get punished. it should be a nonfactor imho
deletedalmost 10 years

Jericho says

what do you mean by run the tables?

It looks like a pretty good idea on paper but I'm worried about what unknown implications it might have.




he's referring to a round in which crypto came from nowhere to snipe a trophy by going like 10/10 on the last day of the round or something

personally i think this is a good thing because it prevents players from targeting other players they perceive as threats. for instance i know jericho was dodging sidekick last round because he thought she jailkilled him to prevent him from getting more points. kind of hard to do something like that when you don't really know who the competition's going to be