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a suggestion for the competition

deletedalmost 10 years

hello gamers,

billstickers here with the first Actual Serious Thread of my life. i've been mulling this idea for a while now and would like some feedback. it seems like most of the things we actually bother talking about as issues w/ this site are only addressed when something goes wrong; this isn't one of those cases. this is an attempt to streamline the competition and make life easier and more rewarding for both players and moderators.

current competitive system:

  • 5 gold hearts per day, gold hearts cap at 10
  • round ends once someone crosses the 2000 point threshhold (8-13 days)
  • ties extend the round 1 day

proposed change:

  • joining the competition grants a player 50 gold hearts

  • round lasts 10 days; top 3 scores at the end of the 10 day period are your trophy winners

  • ties are the same i guess idk what to do with them

why its good for the site as a whole

  • normalization of the round time and point structure lend more credibility to the competition. no longer will we refer to rounds as "that time soben closed the round in 7 days" or "that time turquoise took 12 days to win gold on reverse mafia". also, we can actually judge trophy performances against one another because everyone will have to play the same amount of games

  • empirical ways to judge setups. is this the third time in a row that SnL was comped and someone won with a winrate over 80%? maybe this is a town pointfarm after all

why it's good for runners:

  • flexibility with regard to when/how frequently hearts must be played. running is a significant time investment and this would allow players to organize their run around their actual lives. i think we've all been in situations in which we were out of it and didn't want to play hearts, or were running hot and would have happily reeled off 10 or 12 games in a row.

  • the option to more selectively choose tables due to the lack of pressure to play x amount of games per day

  • players that run on multiple accounts can more accurately gauge how well they're doing and choose which account to push forward for the run. rather than attempting to read the round based on how people are doing on day 3 or 4, players enter the competition with the specific finite knowledge of when the round will end and roughly how well they'll have to do

  • there's been a lot of talk about Manhunt recently, what with a lot of last round's runners switching over to Manhunt on the last day to try and catch up in points. this would alleviate if not entirely eradicate that issue by removing most of the scenarios in which someone looks at the leaderboard and says "i have one heart and sidekick is 90 points ahead of me, i need a solo killer win"

  • players can still play their 5 hearts a day, exactly as they do now, if they so choose. proponents of the current system don't have to change anything they do

  • ability to mitigate your personal stress levels by playing all your hearts early if you so choose

why it's good for casual players

  • you aren't limited by the daily heart limit. i know i'm speaking for myself and a few others when i say it sucks that sometimes you can't play mafia for 4-5 days due to real life commitments but are capped at 10 gold heart games the day you want to start playing again

  • encouragement for new/casual runners: maybe you're just some dude who just wants to play some mafia and realize you're 20-7 on day 4. why not go for the trophy? maybe you had to work all week and played 8 hours on a saturday and won 70% of your games. why not go for the trophy?

  • you can actually play mafia w/ your friends when you feel like it instead of being constrained by some competinerd schedule

why its good for moderators

  • no more last-day-of-round crunch. no more (or at the very least, a lot less) runners freaking out at you over skype and PMs on the last day of the round as they try to get refunds before they run out of time. no more excessive last day scrounging. no more headaches

  • no need to pause the round every time there's a cheating accusation; just freeze the account(s) in question. no need to waste everyone's time unless someone only decides to cheat on the last day.

  • easier to spot suspicious accounts and winrates. more people are gonna take notice of a guy going 17/20 than a guy going 4/5 4 days in a row with the same players. theoretically, games involving the same players would cluster together more, seeing as it takes two people to cheat and theoretically cheaters also have time constraints. this is mostly conjecture on my part but i think it would make cheating stand out more.

  • should spread the overall report burden more evenly through the round, although again, also conjecture

arguments against that i've thought of

  • people would probably buy less alts or something so lucid would lose money

  • reactionary internet libertarians will blame every bad game they have on vancy because he changed something instead of leaving it the same

  • itd be a lot easier to play with the same people regularly and "meta abuse" - personally, i don't think there's validity to this, because people already do that and all this change would do is make it a bit easier on their schedules, but seeing as playing with the same people constantly isn't against the rules i think it's kind of moot

  • if someone straight up crushes a round and is sitting at 43-7 on day 5 people might lose incentive to play the last few days of the round - the rare scenario in which this format prolongs the round instead of shortening it. i think the good outweighs the bad here, as it's worth going 10 days instead of 9 once every dozen rounds in exchange for no more 13 day jan 2.0 miseryfests

i would really appreciate some constructive feedback here; i know this isn't anywhere near a hot-button issue but i think it's in all of our best interests to always be on the lookout for ways to improve the site. thanks for your time!!!

what do you think of this proposed change to the competitive structure?
22
it'd improve the competition
3
who cares
0
it'd make the competition worse
deletedalmost 10 years

Lashka says

Well, getting rid of heart decay entirely would also solve that, Dan. So you can play loads at the weekend if you wish.


Well yeah, 5 every day without the decay until you hit 50 which is the limit could also be an alternative
almost 10 years

Lashka says

The former concern is indeed a hypothetical, but the latter is quite plausible I think. Keeping activity constant is the great benefit of the 5 hearts per day and not something I really think should be thrown out of the window.


Of course. It's the kind of thing we won't know until we see what the trends are.
deletedalmost 10 years
Well, getting rid of heart decay entirely would also solve that, Dan. So you can play loads at the weekend if you wish.
deletedalmost 10 years
This is a good idea because then I could play my hearts at my leisure.
deletedalmost 10 years
The former concern is indeed a hypothetical, but the latter is quite plausible I think. Keeping activity constant is the great benefit of the 5 hearts per day and not something I really think should be thrown out of the window.
almost 10 years

Lashka says

Personally I don't think the 5 hearts per day is a problem. I think that guaranteed 10 day rounds without a points margin to cross would solve the other issues just as well without making new ones.


This'll really depend on your schedule. When I was unemployed, making time for 5 hearts a day was easy. Now that I'm working, I'd probably try to crank out 10+ on weekends or other times when it's more convenient. It's just a personal preference, but I think the timing issue is something that affects a lot of people.
almost 10 years

Lashka says

There are other concerns which is that trolls getting 50 hearts from the start mean they can ruin a lot more games in quick succession before the mods deal with their reports.

And also that games may be quite hard to fill on the last day or two if a lot of people have already used all of their hearts.


Perhaps this can segue into a change in refund policy too then ; )

But yeah, that's a great concern. The mods have been excellent about keeping reports low the past few months so I don't think it'd be a tremendous issue.
deletedalmost 10 years
Personally I don't think the 5 hearts per day is a problem. I think that guaranteed 10 day rounds without a points margin to cross would solve the other issues just as well without making new ones.
almost 10 years

thebrontosaurus says

Beautiful, thanks Arc.

This thread's been here a few days and no one has come out saying "WTF BAD" so I think it'd go over okay with everyone. The greater degree of flexibility would be lovely though and I'd be surprised if someone was against that aspect.


np
deletedalmost 10 years
Not that I'm against this, but it isn't as problem-free as the draft would imply :P.
deletedalmost 10 years
There are other concerns which is that trolls getting 50 hearts from the start mean they can ruin a lot more games in quick succession before the mods deal with their reports.

And also that games may be quite hard to fill on the last day or two if a lot of people have already used all of their hearts.
almost 10 years
Beautiful, thanks Arc.

This thread's been here a few days and no one has come out saying "WTF BAD" so I think it'd go over okay with everyone. The greater degree of flexibility would be lovely though and I'd be surprised if someone was against that aspect.
almost 10 years
@Bronto

"Hey Phil, BillStickers made a suggestion for round competition we wanna try! I don't think anyone in the community really opposes this.

Instead of the round ending at 2k points, round ends after 10 days. Each player is given one big pool of 50 hearts instead of 5 per day. Top 3 players after the 10 days expire get a trophy.

Major reasons this is good:
- People won't feel like there's no point in running anymore if they miss a day or two.
- People who want to run can do so on their own schedule.
- May fix issues with people preferring setups which can give more points quickly.

Only real concerns we thought of:
- May encourage people to just play with their friends, which can upset other runners who didn't gain an advantage from that."

Of course this assumes the idea remains mostly unopposed.
almost 10 years

Lashka says

Yeah. Different medals, and perhaps a new page listing the current holders of each Major, would be neat. Different trophies would be a pretty easy addition as we already had medals in the past. The different types of competition needing to be coded is why I never really bothered to flesh this idea out as I didn't think lucid would be interested enough to do it, but if other people are suggesting changing the round system, why not float this idea now and see whether he's up for it.


The revamp of the round system itself and cycling between them would probably be a daunting task though, which is why I don't think he'd go for it. Depending on how he responds to Bill's idea I'd present it to him.

I'll see what he says when I email him, may not get an answer with the holidays and all.
almost 10 years

BiIIstickers says

no more 13 day jan 2.0 miseryfests


I'm in.
deletedalmost 10 years
Yeah. Different medals, and perhaps a new page listing the current holders of each Major, would be neat. Different trophies would be a pretty easy addition as we already had medals in the past. The different types of competition needing to be coded is why I never really bothered to flesh this idea out as I didn't think lucid would be interested enough to do it, but if other people are suggesting changing the round system, why not float this idea now and see whether he's up for it.
deletedalmost 10 years

Calvin says

Align the entire idea of competitive play to that of WWE's idea of championships


only if we get EM money in the bank

i just want to cash in my briefcase after someone played a 2 hour 3way on the last day of the round
deletedalmost 10 years
Align the entire idea of competitive play to that of WWE's idea of championships
almost 10 years

Arcbell says


thebrontosaurus says

hey Arc can you help me make a TL;DR version of this? I'll dress it up and send it to Phil. I'll cc you on the email.


Sure


Thanks, is your email still the same as when you were admin?

I've got to finish up one thing for work really quick and then I'll get crackin'
almost 10 years

Lashka says

I always liked the idea of different types of Competition. Instead of just every round being the same, there being 4-6 different types of Competition that alternate around. The current structure could be one, this idea could be another, and then a few others people could come up with. Sure, we'd get the "X is better than Y", but there'd also be the added motivation to get a "Grand Slam" and I think it'd encourage more of the older players to come back and try to win some of the other types of Competitions.

You could give each one a name, like sports ("The Masters, The World Championship, The Open, etc) have, too.


I like this a lot.

Different looking trophies/medals for each one would be cool. It'd totally involve a revamp of the round system. Not sure how much time and effort Phil wants to invest in Comp, but I think this would be very cool.
almost 10 years

thebrontosaurus says

hey Arc can you help me make a TL;DR version of this? I'll dress it up and send it to Phil. I'll cc you on the email.


Sure
almost 10 years

AregVrt says

Hi bronto, I'm stalking you


Hi Areg, don't make me get a restraining order...
deletedalmost 10 years
I always liked the idea of different types of Competition. Instead of just every round being the same, there being 4-6 different types of Competition that alternate around. The current structure could be one, this idea could be another, and then a few others people could come up with. Sure, we'd get the "X is better than Y", but there'd also be the added motivation to get a "Grand Slam" and I think it'd encourage more of the older players to come back and try to win some of the other types of Competitions.

You could give each one a name, like sports ("The Masters, The World Championship, The Open, etc) have, too.
almost 10 years
nah, i am a big fan of well-constructed ideas. I think it's a great idea that'll benefit both players and mods for a change.
deletedalmost 10 years
and here i thought this was gonna fall off the front page into oblivion