What Grizzly says it's true... but lower points = more noobs at once in golden games. What EM wants (I think) is newer people entering into Comp, but gradually... you don't want a total noob who does not even know what a PR is in a golden heart, right?
So, if they have to play more games and know better the basics (more points), you will have better players, with a better knowledge of the basics into Training Comp, and the environment will be more like a "Comp", with less noobs, even if people in there will be new (they usually join the games they see, unranked, ranked or gold).
Making the Comp more viewable is a thing that should be done, I agree.. Something on the main page would help, above all when a round ends and another one is going to start, make the winners public there too (not only on the forums), and bring the trophies / medals back and make them visibles, so people know "you can trophy on EM" and want to know how.
Has this been a long decline or just a recent thing? This round has been kinda messed so that could just be it. If this is a long term trend you have seen over 5+ rounds then yeah thats no good. TBH I dont get how adding MORE caps on entry will get more ppl into the round...?
For the love of god don't kill it like Shivv wants. That would suck. It's job is to get new players playing more balanced setups and in my case it was definitely worked. Sure that anecdotal but I'm sure it serves it purpose for others too.
I would go in the other direction to what most ppl are suggesting I would lower the point requirements. Lower barrier of entry = more ppl playing gold heart games. Seems the only thing that makes sense to me.
besides statistically your more likely to have a noob against you than on ur team unless you are also a noob. Also training comp is for getting newer players into new setups why try keep newer players out. Every one should know what its about I your not willing to be nice to less experienced players then get out of training lobby.
In terms of developing the culture for running for trophies maybe give each round winner a shout out in the lobby home screen. There is nothing on the home screen that really tells anyone about the compititon I have a feeling alot of ppl dont even know its happening. Maybe a congrats to the winner just under where teh mod are listed with link to the round table will give every one more awareness of the comp and the winner more respect as every one is aware of them. if they are more respected people will try emulate them
But making golden heart refundable HAS to be done...games are very easily thrown or close to that and can't be refunded as of now... and that doesn't encourage people to play golden either...
I think it was because everybody thought the site would go down. I, at least, didn't play golden (or played it less) mainly because of it, and just played more casual setups in red heart (setups with less scumhunting).
Another thing could be that, in Training, you often have trolls or people who often veg, in the golden games, so it could be an idea to increase the number of points requested to play golden hearts (ex: 5000 MIN to play golden) with a minimum number of red heart played and a minimum of wins and a min % of winrate (to enter, if then the % lowers, you could still play, of course...or also many experienced players could not play golden :P). This way people who WANT TO play golden should be a bit less propense to veg / troll, but that would not solve the problem in its totality, I think (even if it would DEFINITELY HELP, imho).
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Sammie, There are a lot of players who have more than 1500 points but they don't want to do anything with comp. I don't know why someone who hasn't even won 10 games would want to participate in a competition for a trophy
Actually 'DotS' is like those setups and I was talking about 'SaL' and 'PaUL'.
marsh , the whole point of trainng competition is everyone can enter. if you need 500 you may as well just get the extra 1000 and join the competitive lobby competition.
also the only setups training is familiar with is classic mafia and fancy pants, neither of which should be made competitive in training.
i have an idea - why not make the rounds shorter in training? make the point limit lower so people wont have to play so many hearts to win. then people won't get bored of the competition halfway through.
Shivv can u just gtfo of training and not comment in here? You don't even play a single game in training. I'm really frustrated with people from comp who think they rule training.
@bront Personally the reason I'm not competing while I'd really like to is 1- I don't like the setups. 2- Others don't know how to play 'em unless they are familiar with similar setups so usually a noob's bad play will give away a win.
Also, a low limit of points needed for playing golden hearts is a good idea, but not 1500 points which 'would take ages' from a noob pov. Maybe something like 500 which guarantees that the player has won at least 10 games so they know the basics of EM. Also it's gonna make it harder for 'thrower' accounts.
The comp setups in training often mirror what's actually in comp. I know I only play in the comp in training if I'm out of hearts/completely bored/where is Fancy Pants.
If you're going to get training interested in these setups, then you need to have interesting setups that don't require comp level game ability to play successfully.
Since they're just recycled comp setups, for those of us who DO play comp comp, it's not worth it to play setups that we enjoy in training with people who are woefully under trained in those setups.
Basically, the setups we're comping are boring, outside of the training skill level in some cases, and mirror the actual comp lobby.
which is why we need a paradigm shift and encourage people to use some of those lesser known roles. Perhaps mods can make setups that have different roles to throw in the ring and then comped setups will have more meaning.
I was about to run on this round, and I played a few games. Then one of my games got refunded(because of that abc thing.) Then people started talking about canceling the round or reseting it. And It got reset. I didn't bother to continue for a few reasons.
1. There are not many competitive games in the Training Lobby. I am on this site for quite a long time, but I rarely see that many competitive games. Maybe when someone decides to host it multiple times til his hearts run out. If you check the training lobby, you notice it's all Fancy Pants/Classic Mafia/SITD/etc. Having very few competitive games when I'm around, makes it that I don't bother playing competitive anymore.
2. Some people might just not be interested in this round's setups. I never really played anything but Who Watches The Watcher. I'm not sure if that's the case. But I certainly got bored of competitive games.
This was my view of why is competitive games getting so unpopular. I still like comp and tbh I want to see more of it. But for now I prefer Fancy Pants and others.
lets get back to that at a later date. back on topic.
Another major hurdle is the steep learning curve of em to start.
I'd liek to see new players after one game receive an automated message from a mentor ( yes automated with it prefering to send a message from an online mentor) for them to respond too. I'm sure the mentors would love to help out the newer players with there questions after all thats what the signed up for.
this would make the learning curve not as rough as the mentor can help out a bunch of newer players through random messages not just mentoree sign ups and would be a much better system to prepare them for comp.
but this is my first round out of sandbox ( sandbox master race) and participating in a comp and i feel like it's a good stepping stone for players to learn the in's and outs of epic mafia and should not be removed. Putting a bit of pressure on them makes them improve.
The biggest reason i see for lack of participation in gold heart games in trainign is whenever a newer player joins a slightly more expearienced player ( cough colly cough) will *** them out in lobby and not make them feel welcome at all. and even when are they are expearienced enough for gold hearts they still dont feel welcome from the abuse earlier
I feel like maybe making it so you have to have a certain amount of points ( say 1500) before beign able to join gold heart ames may stem this a little bit. as of right now i see alot of people join gold hearts as soon as they have them ( so around 100-200 points) and getting chewed out and never coming back. even if they turn out to be great players.
i can understand red hearts not being refunded because tons of people play red hearts. but not many people are playing gold heart games so why not allow refunds on the ones that do get played?
