And Goodbar OT's this to a NV after raging on Empire for over an hour, and after Empire admits to trolling. LOL this report is *** up on so many levels. Just delete it.

yea i'm closing this report, nothing more to be discussed

If someone admits to trolling when they get reported for trolling, they should get a vio, period. That isn't compromising verdict integrity. If the person is lying about trolling, that is their own fault (and choice), not the moderator's.

The difference is you chose to compromise verdict integrity over compromising your personal relationship with Goodbar, not because you're actually guilty of trolling or game throwing.

When the person has admitted having the intent to troll the game in what they're doing it's kind of hard for the mod to say "No you didn't" and refuse to give out a vio.

It doesn't create precedent for giving a vio for playing suboptimally, all Retti did was give a vio to someone who openly admitted to using it to troll. That is a pretty big difference.

>I don't agree with the violation. >But I'm going to give you a violation I don't agree with. >Logic

Giving someone a violation because they asked for it when they didn't do anything wrong is pretty idiotic. Not to mention someone in the future will reference this report and use it as a basis for precedent. It deters people from trying sub-optimal strategies even if their intent is to win.

This is not to say that I agree with this verdict, but I will not fight against something empire wants. It is not in my duty to decide that.

[4:18:05 PM] Tyler: https://epicmafia.com/report/105142
[4:18:06 PM] Tyler: give me the vio

in my fairly unbiased opinion, i have to say using a high risk high reward strategy (in this case, not using the ML, which disallows mafia to fish for pr, and thus having prs to do whatever they need to do n2) is not gamethrowing, as long as empire is actively trying win for his team by using this strategy.

The way I'm playing on Stab was indeed done so that I could troll, it was intentionally suboptimal but I did it for fun. Now give me the vio.

Just close this and give me the vio, I'd rather just take it even if it's wrong than let this report become personal.

John go take a walk, cool off. I'm saying this to you as a friend.

no what's petty is your barrage of *** just to avoid a single violation, i'm honestly disgusted that you'd say all this straight to my face

The fact that you're actually accusing me of lying here despite numerous evidence to the contrary (Personal logs to you as well as one of my closest friends in addition to ingame frustration) is extremely petty.

Also, me being "malicious" was me trying to strongarm my strategy/lynch just like every other clear does. I was very clearly playing to win as shown by my investigation of Soda and complaining about him being obvious for the rest of the game in the GY. The only thing "malicious" I did was try to strongarm my strat as the clear. I was never throwing the game, by all measures I was seeking out mafia and playing to win.

due* :-)

people think when they do that that they're doing it right, when they're not. empire knows he's wrong. why is that hard to understand

Alternatively, it's comparable to when people nl on a doc save in classic mafia, but half the time that's do to ignorance

I think this strategy is most comparable to when people lynch the oracle on a mislynch to get the reveal. Both strategies suck and are sub-optimal, but both aren't gamethrowing

It doesn't increase town's chance of winning. Statistically, it slightly lowers it. But mafia is not solely a statistics game, and I am confident in my ability to read accurately enough to keep my town win rate constant while my mafia one goes up.

you are using a suboptimally strategy purposely for the sake of making the game harder for yourself, and you're malicious to anyone who opposes you, there is no assumption it's right in the *** game

NL does, indeed, have no strong correlation with town's play, however the idea is that if I am a good enough town I should win the same amount of games anyway. In addition, anyone who specs my recent games on Stab and reads the logs can see I was actively trying to find mafia and was actually upset with town not lynching an obvious one. I was clearly playing to win, the intent is not there and I don't know why Goodbar is assuming malice here.

empire hasn't named a single reason why nling increases town win chance, he simply says he can win if town plays well, which is true for any instance of any game