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EM Game Theory Discussion #2

over 6 years

Each Wednesday, I'm going to make a thread about a particular subject about Epic Mafia Game Theory. Sorry about being late this time, had a trophy run to complete and it just escaped my mind.

Our second subject to discuss will be the act of roleswapping.

The act of roleswapping is to claim a role that you are not to either A. bait mafia into believing you are that role or B. confuse town and trick them into thinking you are that role. It is very beneficial if done correctly as both alignments. However, some people do not take very well someone claiming their own role.

What is your opinion on roleswapping? Do you think it's a good strategy or not? When and when don't you roleswap?

Please note that everyone will have various opinions and there's no right or wrong opinions. I want several opinions to fly but make sure that the conversation doesn't get too heated or I will have to mute you. Feel free to PM me recommendations for next week's game theory topic.

over 6 years
Generally a terrible strategy that nobody knows how or when (or when not) to properly do anymore

However, if it's done the right way and at the right time (which is rarely the case these days), then it's good. Usually involves some form of risk for a low chance at a reward though. Done way too often and backfires far too much, has a risk of disrupting scumhunting and gameplay as well imo.

tl;dr: I hate it
over 6 years
Kinda sly is similar.

Game #1: sly claims BS D2 and hammers one of blue claims - hammered the hooker, cop checks out mafia, town autowin, sly was a blue.

Game #2: sly claims BS D1 and hammer mafia after sheriff misshot. Mafia hits sly who gets vested, sly is considered clear, uncc'd cop with guilty, town leads to win.

Game #3: sly claims BS D1 after sheriff misshooting. sly asks for hammer and hammers the sheriff. sly wins the game because sly was mafia.
over 6 years
i roleswap everygame by claiming blacksmith when im villager lol
deletedover 6 years
Gotta agree w/ pranay here, yesterday I played a game of gnh where d1 I gunned dead, cop had me inno and a town claimed gs. At that point my options were to claim and lead on him or just be outed. I didn't claim, let the cop lead and we got nilla. N2 my read was that the player claiming gs is most likely town but I choose to gun outside just to be safe. At this point it's a 50/50 assuming the rs is town, I gun the other town, spam the gunned player at daystart w/ a shot and we shoot hooker.

Pretty much my goal was to remove a variable and create a situation where I get more reads as the game went on.
over 6 years
This discussion is futile because a roleswap is dependent on the intelligence of the player. If I am cleared and the real orc doesn't let me rs then he we as a collective town have failed because the collective intelligence of the town is not enough.

So we can't complain in case of a failed roleswap. Sometimes a noob will not cc because they don't know someone claimed their role.

A smart person tries to get someone to rs with them but if no one is smart enough to rs then it is the same as first case. So some smart people pretend to rs as real pr and attract the intended action from mafia.
over 6 years
I'm all for roleswapping with clears. No comment here.

I'm also all for roleswapping with tr. If your tr turns out to be mafia, they won, and it wouldn't change if you claimed your role outright as you'd avoid lynching your tr, but if they're town, you'd get more chances to win than outright claiming.

Roleswapping with random? It depends. If it's gunned-GS rs on day 1 start - no! You're not supposed to know if you gunned mafia or town. You change a scumhunting game into a lucky-based one, where the gunned has more chances to win the game. About rs'ing a protective role on ml - alright. Still, it depends, I may out when I scumread the roleswapping person.

Shortly about randoms, I don't rs my pr role if the role doesn't provide anything to the game than just being clear (samurai, single templar in most cases). In other cases, it depends if it's legit cc or an attempt to rs.
over 6 years
If someone is cop cleared, I will absolutely let them claim my role, just drop subtle hints so they can pick up I'm the one they're roleswapping with.

In guns and hookers, there's no benefit to roleswapping as GS when you gun someone, and lots of drawbacks.

Now if someone is unclear, based on how much I townread them, I will let them claim my role. It is pretty difficult to decide whether someone is roleswapping or outright claiming your role so I do this with utmost caution.

Now if we're headed to a night phase and someone claims my role to bait night kill, I'll absolutely let them do it. You should too. If they actually own that claim, they'll usually appear scummy and you'll have the upper hand when you cc them next day.

In most scenarios it's very dangerous to roleswap but really good players can get away with it if subtle hints are dropped. I know I've had several amazing roleswaps.

In my opinion it is NEVER gamethrow to roleswap, just as long as you think the swap is playing to your win condition.