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PSA on Selfing for the Clear

deletedalmost 9 years

Hello everyone, I'm Tatami, and you should never self for the clear.

Here is why:

Pros of selfvoting for the clear:

-The clear gets to pick the lynch

-Any reports the clear may have can stay hidden

-Can avoid getting a claim from the lynch

-Can't be blitzed by kick until timer is down

Cons of selfvoting for the clear:

-Virtually no discussion/information and therefore nothing to read off of

-"Can avoid getting a claim from the lynch" isn't really a pro because you should ask for one anyway and if you don't you get your PR lynched for no information

Instead, the clear should lead a lynch, giving flexibility for others to vote how they want until crunchtime:

Pros of the clear leading:

-The clear gets to pick the lynch

-Any reports the clear may have can stay hidden

-Extreme amount of information, discussion, and deliberation

Cons of the clear leading:

-Can result in claims

-Can be blitzed by kick

Where do these two lists leave us?

Selfing for the clear is across the board worse than the clear leading a lynch. The advantages it has-avoiding asking for a claim, less vulnerable to kicks, are not true strengths. Getting claims is fundamentally a good thing and you should be getting it even if there are selfs up. The kicks are fine, both for information, and for the fact that the alternative (clear hammering) means the lynch would have gone through if they got selfs instead of kicks anyway. The blitz, therefore, did no harm-and it, just like the selfs, can only happen after the timer is down.

There are no advantages to selfing instead of letting the clear lead. You get a ton of information out of it, which is extremely valuable, and the cons are ones you get with selfvotes anyway.

Please, please, stop selfvoting for the clear. Have them lead instead.

deletedalmost 9 years
I'll concede that to some extent. I'm of the school of thought that increased information/discussion is universally better to have as town but in practical play I can see this break down into how you described.

ie. Interpreting that information correctly requires an amount of skill as a prerequisite.
Hunt
almost 9 years
Self voting has its advantages and leading has its. I use them when I need them. Self voting is required sometimes when people are not going to vote their friends even if they are mafia. They will force nl against the clear on lylo. There are many situations where self voting is required. There are many situations where leading is required because you can clear a lot of people and see reactions. In some cases you don't wanna give the stalker the chance to out stalk so if you lead on them, they can out it. So you need to ask for self votes and surprise them.

Same goes with janitor. If you lead on them, they can out jan.

If you lead on me, I will do a great deal of wifom or out reads for partners or do a lot of things that may make you townread me and clear me the entire game. So when i see that possibility, I will not lead. I will hammer instead.
Giga13
almost 9 years
If the clear is going to live for more than one day, they should play the game from their perspective and thought process. They should have a plan and figure out what will happen if any player is hammered and if they flip town or mafia. They can develop the best course of action and go with it and they won't have any interruptions in this way. It can be useful but really if the clear doesn't know what they're doing--I wouldn't put too much faith in them, going back to my first point about this being a situational choice
ling
almost 9 years

krystalk says

Clears ask for selfing because they want to prove their dominance and thrive off the power of being able to do whatever they want without question. It is all a power struggle imo, and they get power hungry.


thats like my sexlife
Giga13
almost 9 years

Tatami says


Giga13 says

I wait, get reads, then ask for selfvotes, then hammer, which is completely different than yoloselfing 30 seconds or less into the day.


I contend that leading is across the board a better strategy regardless of the time lapse.


Giga13 says

It depends on your playstyle to and one is not definitely better than the other since there are situations in which one is obviously better than the other


In what cases do you think selfing would be better?


When there's a mafia who is totally obvious but you don't want to waste time leading on them while they b*tch for one full minute and then have towns who are wrong disagree with you and steer you off course by unvoting/trying to convince you not to lynch them/forcing a lynch elsewhere. Hammering on them there is much better since it saves time, it gives them less time to fake interactions to get their partner townread, and overall gives the scumteam less persuasion power and less time to develop their own PR reads or reads on who would likely not be hammered later in the game, so that they can make an educated kill
deletedalmost 9 years

Giga13 says

I wait, get reads, then ask for selfvotes, then hammer, which is completely different than yoloselfing 30 seconds or less into the day.


I contend that leading is across the board a better strategy regardless of the time lapse.


Giga13 says

It depends on your playstyle to and one is not definitely better than the other since there are situations in which one is obviously better than the other


In what cases do you think selfing would be better?
Giga13
almost 9 years
Waiting, getting reads, then asking for selfvotes, then hammering, is completely different than yoloselfing 30 seconds or less into the day. The setup matters, who you are playing with matters, the situation matters, sometimes leading is good sometimes selfvoting is good. It depends on your playstyle to and one is not definitely better than the other since there are situations in which one is obviously better than the other
Epileptic
almost 9 years
Killing the oracled bomb as sole mafia is not playing the game. It is throwing the game.
krystal
almost 9 years
It's true, question a clear and they will lynch you because you are questioning their dominance in that game lo
deletedalmost 9 years

krystalk says

Clears ask for selfing because they want to prove their dominance and thrive off the power of being able to do whatever they want without question. It is all a power struggle imo, and they get power hungry.


Slow down there Freud.
Hunt
almost 9 years
You can actually. If you vote naked town as town, it is wrong.
krystal
almost 9 years
Clears ask for selfing because they want to prove their dominance and thrive off the power of being able to do whatever they want without question. It is all a power struggle imo, and they get power hungry.
deletedalmost 9 years
Well, I guess that settles it.
Epileptic
almost 9 years
You cannot play this game wrong
deletedalmost 9 years

Epileptic says

This thread is a long and arduous read


Which is why the tl;dr is in bold.

Epileptic says

when there is no wrong way of playing the game.


This is false on multiple levels. ex. Killing the oracled bomb as sole mafia with no doctor in play at the most basic, certain strategies (cop claiming in CM) raise your chance of winning dramatically at the more intricate
Epileptic
almost 9 years
This thread is a long and arduous read when there is no wrong way of playing the game.
Hunt
almost 9 years
Most of the times I am mafia and people still self vote for me.
deletedalmost 9 years
Alright but I'm really lazy
deletedalmost 9 years
and thus, after 7 years, the world finally knows the deepest, most hidden secret on epicmafia.com
deletedalmost 9 years

Hunt says

I self for the clear only when I am mafia


did you just reveal your greatest secret
Hunt
almost 9 years
This game isn't about being fair to others.
Hunt
almost 9 years
I self for the clear only when I am mafia or have some hidden agenda.

But if I'm clear I want self votes.

Even though I won't self for you.


This is how it works for me.
JeffreyAaron
almost 9 years
I literally always say this and get lynched for it.
trolleyz
almost 9 years
cons of the clear leading: slowrolling
deletedalmost 9 years
It also ruins some alignment reads