i don't think siren is actually played anywhere, ranked or unranked, because it's almost unplayable. winning is a matter of chance and even if its current mechanics werent so broken (dies even when picking its killer right?) it still depends on having prs, hiding its identity, and somehow making not one but two people visit it without gaining suspicion
instead of making siren guess who visits her, just give her two chances to predict whether she's visited at all. this is still difficult, but it's actually feasible
Siren 2015: act like how siren irl works - 3rd party - Once a game can sing a song attracting people, whoever visits and does their actions that night to visits her instead, and does that action on the siren instead - Siren is unkillable that night - Who kills the siren gets a siren kiss, a.k.a a vest (works like tinkerer) - People who visit siren has 50% chance to kill themselves - Everytime siren kills someone she can sing a song again - Wins if theres no visiting role left, or sided with the siren (majority rule ...)
deletedabout 9 years
I honestly think the message idea was bad and a waste of time, like you said it's not a big deal :33 I just wanna know everyone else's thoughts on the matter, though the general vibe I'm getting is that no one honestly cares enough about it
siren could have a system message but its not a big deal
deletedabout 9 years
if a poll were to be created. the options would be pretty damn similar and I have the sneaking suspicion that most sandboxers wouldn't want to split hairs over subtle differences like when the siren sings or what happens when they **** it up.
unless someone has a wincon that's significantly different from what cub's suggested (all of them have suggested guessing when a visit occurs, rather than who) I'd be inclined to believe that a "consensus" has already been reached, we're (mostly me, tbh) just nitpicking over slight details, if that. I wouldn't even consider it proper nitpicking, more like bouncing off little tweaks that no one wants to comment on.
so with that in mind, the only real complaint toward the siren that I've noticed so far is that this condition would be too easy, but cub's suggestion of having only two songs per game seem to address that. Does anyone have an issue with that in particular?
and then my concern stems from the fact that either siren or the town will be taken for a ride eventually. I've decided that I don't care if town's being jacked out of a win by surprise siren anymore, so my only real "worry" is that siren won't know for certain if they hit, especially when you toss roles like hitman, witch, and killer into the mix. at least roles like angel, lyncher, and prophet know when they've lost. Is this something I should even care about?
last time there was a poll involving roles nothing happened
deletedabout 9 years
Just take the various options people propose and stick them in a poll, person with the most alts decides how Siren works in the future.
deletedabout 9 years
yeah I figured my ideas complicate things too much and I'd agree with the OP. :33 I just realized that I was basically rehashing OP's idea, with a right guess killing someone and getting you halfway to victory and a wrong one guaranteeing that you lose. I just didn't see the fact that you only had two chances to sing at the time. ^-^''
the only real thing I changed with my idea was that I figured that people should be alerted to the siren's presence somehow to freak everyone out when they figure that the siren has a kill, and so that a siren win doesn't come as a total shock. It'd also be a confirmation to siren that they guessed correctly, because I could imagine people getting pissed endgame because they thought they netted two kills only to permanently lose. But then again, I've already elaborated on the problems with the system message idea and plenty of third wins are meant to be a total surprise rather than inspiring paranoia.
a consensus from this community? everyone agrees siren sucks, don't push your luck
if you want to make siren playable but still resemble the original concept of siren, that's what's in op. it's the exact same mechanic but it takes away the absurd condition that you have to guess the exact visitor. and it's more logical:
Sing a song tonight? (?) Lure an unsuspecting visitor closer than expected. yes / no
then, for your sake, it could simply work like a self-trapper where it kills one visitor. you get two tries and have to guess both right to win, so it can be a lot easier or a lot more difficult (depends if you gamble n1 and how it turns out), more on balance with existing thirds
trust me im good at mafia
deletedabout 9 years
I like that idea more than mine 'cause it sticks to character, is much simpler, and removes the "town hears the song and still doesn't die" , but given that most games here last only 3-4 days, it'd be mighty hard for them to win, especially if they had to nail 3 kills. It'd put the game out completely of siren's control, but on the other hand that's never really stopped roles like prophet and just like prophet an active player could still make it work in their favor. Maybe if the singing nights were a bit less predictable, like Politician?* But on the other hand, Politician isn't going to win Best Third Role 2015 any time this year.
EDIT: *And that'd actually make the problem worse ya dumb cat:/
I've just realized that all of my points have been based on the assumption that siren would only be played in closed role with wills, but I guess it doesn't necessarily have to do well in those conditions, right? This kind of siren would work in a game meant to last much longer, while my Miss Coinflip siren would work better without wills.
I disagree with whatever is said in this thread. No consensus for you losers.
deletedabout 9 years
Is there any way to make the siren actually fit the character. In siren lore usually anyone that hears the siren sing gets lured into some rocky ocean water and dies. So what if like every 2 days the siren starts to sing, if anyone visits it that night, they die. Siren can't be killed while it's singing. If siren successfully kills 2-3 people it wins. Something along those lines.
deletedabout 9 years
now that I've had a little more time to think, I wonder if the "expose if you get it wrong" idea would be unfair.... my version of the siren has the odds stacked against it, but given that sandbox is loaded with wills filled with diligent people who jot down who they visit, even a correct answer has the potential to indirectly expose a siren. You could make it lynchproof, but that wouldn't matter because an exposed siren would be a dead or loser siren. Instead, you could have the song message displayed anytime the siren guesses a visit, correct or not. This would make it more ambiguous as to whether the siren made a kill, which is good for the siren, but would still alert the town to the siren's presence.
you could make it a dicey chancey role by having it function like a werewolf needing only two kills but if it guesses a visit when there isn't one then it gets exposed. If it does happen to land a kill, a system message will be shown to everyone saying the siren's song could be heard, meaning they better pick up their play. If it selects no when there isn't a visit, nothing happens. . That'd make it so it's not hard to play, but it wouldn't be easy because a right or a wrong guess gives the town a chance to be wary.
