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visit mechanics

cub
about 9 years

let's discuss problems with visiting mechanics in this game. currently, visits determine almost every action, whether or not it's logical, and roles no-visit to prevent being roleblocked, which generates even more logical inconsistencies

let's take the following roles for example:

loudmouth. im not sure if this has been changed, but loudmouth selfvisits in order to detect visitors. the problem with this? you can witch, trap, intercept, roleblock, and track loudmouth, a nonvisiting role. it also can't receive carols. last i checked there's still a bug with it and ninja.

priest. this has never changed: priest selfvisits to detect visitors. therefor, you can witch, trap, intercept, roleblock, and track priest, a nonvisiting role. it also can't receive carols.

ghoul. selfvisits to detect visitors. same problem.

maid and zombie. although they aren't supposed to be roleblocked, they can't be tracked, watched, trapped, intercepted, or killed by granny either. unsurprisingly, everyone hates zombie as a result: it's unstoppable because it never visits, nullifying most roles on it.

anarchist and arsonist. both of these roles are explicitly stated to visit, and with good reason: they visit. logically. but in reality, they don't, meaning they can't be tracked, watched, trapped, intercepted, or killed by granny. again, they nullify most roles.

there are two main issues here:

roles must visit to react

in the case of selfvisiting roles like lm, priest, ghoul, gramps, etc. these roles must selfvisit in order to react to visitors, which means they are subject to all visit mechanics even though these are NOT visiting roles (except gramps, but the mechanic itself is not)

roles must not visit to act

in the case of unblockable roles like maid, zombie, anarchist, and arsonist (although the last two have no reason to be immune to roleblock), they prevent roleblock by effectively becoming ninjas. they don't show up on reports, they can't be intercepted, they don't trigger witch, etc. they do WAY more than simply acting without roleblock. just because you can't block a role doesn't mean it doesn't visit. on the contrary, if a role always visits, it follows that it visits

moonlightseal
about 9 years

Soluciones says


moonlightseal says

I wonder how different between drunk and hooker works? I remember hooker roleblocks priest but drunk doesn't


im sure ive been drunked, hooked and nursed and neither priest nor gramp messages appeared. It roleblocked my selfvisit so I coudlnt see what roles visited me


I did the drunk on priest test before. I got the priest message
deletedabout 9 years

admin says

foxie: can you email me a concise list of the roles that have the problem? it's really a 10 minute thing for me to fix. i just need to know about it and trust your game mechanic intuitions


Also Anarchist + Guiser, when you guise as someone else your original name still pops up for the system message of "x passed the bomb to y". Sort yoself out foo'
deletedabout 9 years

moonlightseal says

I wonder how different between drunk and hooker works? I remember hooker roleblocks priest but drunk doesn't


im sure ive been drunked, hooked and nursed and neither priest nor gramp messages appeared. It roleblocked my selfvisit so I coudlnt see what roles visited me
moonlightseal
about 9 years
Anyway, there are two types of visit, normal visit and backdoor visit.
Backdoor visit happens, if you know your visit target place like your own house, so you can sneak into their house, using the backdoor to go in, and only be caught by tracker. Watcher watch the front door, and this visit doesn't use driving stuff, so watcher and driver doesn't effect this type. The role that do this visit, is mostly self visit one, and the follower in group meeting (The leader of the group open the target front door, then go into their house to open the target backdoor ...).
The role that do backdoor visit can be fixed easily, by removing their visit, but changing so much thing at one time would make so much chaos stuff .... It should base on the role logic, like all priests should go to their church each night, or ghoul should visit himself to do the self protection. Well agree with the zombie or other 3rd stuffs. I honestly think all roles should visit or backdoor visit, except may be watcher ( well you can stand on top of your roof to watch other's house)
moonlightseal
about 9 years
I wonder how different between drunk and hooker works? I remember hooker roleblocks priest but drunk doesn't
cub
about 9 years
reminder zombie should visit
cub
about 9 years

UltraAug says

I think arsonist and mistle should stay nonvisiting.


why? logically, they both visit someone in order to perform their action on that person.

especially arsonist. a watcher should be able to see when someone gets arsoned. it's arsonist, not ninja, you aren't stealthbombing people
donut
about 9 years
Played as loudmouth last night with a tracker, loudmouth doesn't self visit.
UltraAug
about 9 years
I think arsonist and mistle should stay nonvisiting.
ZeroFurrbone
about 9 years
Some selfvisiting roles, are actually quiet usefull.
cub
about 9 years
watcher and lookout shouldn't visit so in a way i suppose

those roles should stay the way they are
ZeroFurrbone
about 9 years
Isn't watcher like the ninja?
cub
about 9 years
posting here rather than mail so that others can comment whether they agree and also so they can mention roles i might've forgotten

selfvisiting roles that should not visit at all. these roles always cause confusion at first because there's no logical reason they should visit since they aren't visiting roles. people have gotten used to lm, priest, and gramps, but it's evident selfvisiting roles still confuse people because i have to explain that ghoul selfvisits any time someone gets a report on them. it's not logical, and also creates issues like the notorious selfvisit intercept kill.

loudmouth, priest, gramps, ghoul

granny might, i don't know. given current visit mechanics, it probably does.

self-converting roles like mimic and amn selfvisit to convert themselves which is weird

nonvisiting roles. ninja should be the only nonvisiting role that exists, but other roles use this mechanic to evade roleblock. of course, this means you can't watch, track, intercept, trap, witch, granny, priest, gramps, etc. them either. that's quite a bit more than just "don't roleblock me"

maid, zombie, anarchist, arsonist, mistletoe?
admin
about 9 years
foxie: can you email me a concise list of the roles that have the problem? it's really a 10 minute thing for me to fix. i just need to know about it and trust your game mechanic intuitions