Can someone explain me how the meteor/refund works now? I seriously don't understand. Mafia had possibility to win and they decided to hit the clear who'd always be saved by doc. The rest of town (and graveyard), couldn't do anything about that loss.
Basically, if you don't refund mafia forcing meteor(which is BS by the way) then what the f*** about town? We couldn't do anything besides lynch into 4 way which was suboptimal, it was not OUR job to lynch or kill..it was mafias. That's why they got the damn violation. Why does town need a loss because mafia felt like forcing meteor? If you're setting a new precedent of not refunding meteors, can I throw against someone as town when I'm mafia by forcing it and you won't refund it?
Another question for other readers: have you ever had a meteor forced and got a refund?
For the record: Town was probably gonna win. A few mods I spoke with agree this is a refund. It's even funnier that a mod(Giga) had to appeal and ask for the refund
The doctor wasn't in autoloss and could have easily no saved or changed the saved based on the mafia hitting the same target every night, similarly the mafia were playing optimally based on the knowledge that doc saving that night would have been ridiculous, the best move for mafia was to kill the clear so they were still playing to a win condition.
It is equally both parties fault so either they would both get a violation or neither would get a violation, this thread convinced me that the doctor wasn't to blame and in turn the mafia weren't either, I noted it to let them know for future games that this wasn't a viable strategy but the point is intent. The mafia didn't go into that situation with the intent to force meteor because they could have just easily no killed to force it, they went into the situation trying to kill the most optimal player which is still playing to a win condition, why is it the mafias fault that the doctor decided to save in a situation where saving would cause the game to end with everyone losing?
deletedover 10 years
You overturned the vio yourself, you said that they were both playing for their win condition but they just thought it would be the others side fault:
i still think its a throw, but much less obvious of a throw than i thought before. you cant blame someone for having an opinion one way or the other on this one, as you would truly have to read the mind of the player to know for sure.
that being said. the fact that things like this cause so much chaos despite how infrequent they are is a good sign that the whole meteor mechanic needs to be reformatted.
deletedover 10 years
I think this is Gamethrowing because they forced a draw on a non autoloss situation, which is gamethrowing. They didn't even try to go for doc. Just my two cents :c
Ark - this is game throwing. You saying that it's not game throwing means that mafia can ALWAYS go after doc save and town has obligation to lose clears. The entire POINT of meteor is that mafia has to kill. Mafia is not in an auto lose situation. If they hit doc, they can then kill clear and they're in optimal situation. They game threw because playing to win condition there is aiming for doctor, 100%.
just do me a favor and look at how many times maymay has been reported in his 24+ months of being around. do you think he doesn't know the rules by now? being a bad player doesn't mean you're dumb in real life and cant comprehend rules. there's been so many yak kills, misclicks, vegges that were supposedly unintentional and even a meteor report. if you bothered to check you'd know he has intent to throw. also, precedent that hitting doc save but forcing meteor is GT: https://epicmafia.com/report/86942 < was not in autoloss either.
I sustained the fact that we don't refund meteor forces, it is a fact. Giga hadn't appealed for anything else other than a refund.
deletedover 10 years
So you sustained the report that Jasprar handled, that you helped him with? Appeals are for fresh mods to look at, not someone whos biased from looking at the report beforehand. But hey, circlejerk mod team, what can I do.
Forcing a meteor when you arent in autoloss is GT. You and Jasprar actually had it right regardless. I spoke to other mods and they said they would have refunded it, not to mention one of your OWN moderators says its GT (and appealed it) and this means someone you can trust agrees there is intent to throw. You still have to handle the precedent, this is just to postpone it.
Ark, what if I pretend I don't know meteor rules and throw against someone? Is it okay for me to do that, or since you know I had intent you'd refund it?
Oh and spytied2 has a ton of GT reports across his accounts, some got vios and others didnt. Search closed reports for spytied2 and maymay, don't you think he knows the rules by now?
This is a fault on my part, Jasprar came to me asking for help about this report and I told him to give it gamethrowing, after further consideration and discussion in this thread I have decided to OT my decision for gamethrowing to no violation.
This means that the game isn't viable for refund and the precedent still stands.
I mean sure, if you're arguing he did that on purpose and knew doc would save that's a valid argument: in which case if the mods agree then it definitely should be refunded as it's a normal game throw.
Idk though, I believe him
deletedover 10 years
no, he knew he wasnt in autoloss and he knew doc wouldn't stop saving. it was intentional. maymay, although hes not the greatest player, knows some of the game. he also knows it wasn't autoloss, hence the doc saving is not GT.
@charles if they killed outside of the clear and then spy got lynched(he was confirmed maf) two people died.
Yeah if it were like that it would definitely be as you say, hitting the known not-doc in the first place would be suboptimal, but there was still 1 lynch to go
Yeah it's exactly as I said. Spy said that the doc couldn't save on meteor night, and he hit the clear on meteor night based on the fact that he didn't think doc would go for the autoloss.
I'm pretty sure doc saving on meteor night is not GT unless mafia is in autoloss if they don't kill doc save. And no, I'm pretty sure Shivv refunded that game. Not to mention that wasn't the only refunded game of GAI that round.
I mean that the fact that on the last night the doc knows that if he saves right they lose is more than enough reason to think they would stop doccing the clear the last night
