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Vocab: Revision and Expansion [3]

over 5 years

(third and final vocab thread, I promise. This one is the real daddy)

Okay, I have gathered all the vocab. I assume you all know what vocab is, but if you did not: vocab terms are words that appear in game in red and underlined that you can click on and it gives either a definition, or a role's role logic. Vocab seeks to make the game easier to understand for new users, or users not as experienced with the game and the terminology its users use. There are two types of vocab:

Terms - These words give definitions. Think: LYLO, or D1. Users click on them to get definitions of terms, usually what they stand for and an elaboration of what that means.

Roles - These words give role logic (like you get off the learn page). They come in two forms: exact role name (think: cop, snoop) or another term (usually a shortening) of that role (think: crier for Town Crier, or gator for Interrogator).

Now, before we talk about what terms you'd like to be added: let us look at what we have. The following paste has:

A. Term vocab

B. What roles (verbatim) ARE vocab and give role logic.

C. What roles have only SEPARATE term for them that are vocab and give role logic (term will be listed).

D. Roles that have NO way to list their logic via vocab.

I hope, going forward, all roles will be able to linked to verbatim. Right now, all two word roles can only be marked as vocab via writing them as one word (e.x. "catlady" for the two-word role Cat Lady). New users have no way to know this, and if system message support vocab, this may complicate things.

ALL VOCAB: https://pastebin.com/VHsTarPS

Now, what do we do next? Let's pretend we are a new user. What would be most helpful. In my opinion, the big ones are:

A. System messesages need to include vocab. If Lover dies, a user should be able to hover over the word "Lover" in the death messesage, to find out what it does, and what its alignment is. New users are often confused as to what roles are what alignment, especially when some of the icons are not 100% specific as to their alignment (this has been helped slightly by icon direction, but it could be helped so much more with system messesages supporting vocab).

B. Items need to be vocab words. "What does detonator do?" is something I hear constantly from returning users that are not new, even though you usually should not out a detonator... but, I mean, what does a detonator do? The only place it's written is on the learn page under Demolitionist, and how should I know to look there? Items need a way to show what they are and what they do when you receive them. New users have no reason to know what bread, or a snowball does. I will go further: they need to be specific: if someone says "fab gun" it should list a different definition than if someone says "gun."

C. All Roles Verbatim Should Be Vocab. It is do-able. Even if a role is two words, it should be a vocab term. The only way to find out what Cat Lady does in-game is to type "catlady." That does not help new users at all. The only way to find out what associate does is to type "asso." Same deal. In the above list I linked, all C and D roles need to have their verbatim role names made into vocab terms, and vocab needs to support two-word terms (for the two word roles).

I think with those three things, we lower a significant barrier to entry for new users.


What do you all think? What new vocab terms need to be added, and what changes would you make to the existing terms?

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT VOCAB. IT IS NOT A GENERAL SUGGESTION THREAD. PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC.

over 5 years
Bumping this, bc im submitting my list soon
over 5 years
Yakked should be vocab.
over 5 years
ya tr and sr should b vocabs, also meta/metagaming, nk, n ot (overthrow)
over 5 years
speaking of which tr and sr are also not vocabs
over 5 years
change it so “disguiser” and “guiser” both link to my profile

seriously tho, term: clear (should include noun and verb definition in the same entry), also scum/scumread and auto/autowin
over 5 years
Term to add: Hostile third
over 5 years
also, Joint
over 5 years
Terms that should be vocab:

Mafside
Townside
over 5 years
Jan is not currently vocab for janitor. It should be.
over 5 years

luis4rod says

Third party roles should also indicate if they can win with town or not (aka not hostile or hostile)

hostile i think should be added as a vocab as well. Defintion being "town cannot win if they are alive."

Applies to cthulhu/cult/ww/killer/cm/mistletoe/zombies/cyborgs/etc.etc.etc. idk


To add to this, I think each 3p role should have a note on their page on how they show up to Cop and to Psychic (as well as how Mistle/Justice judges them against other players).
It's confusing to a lot of people that friendly 3ps like Vivor show up as town to Psychic, and afaik it's not documented anywhere.
over 5 years
Self should be added too. I don't think I've ever seen anyone say "sv."
over 5 years
Underworld def needs to be added to the vocab.

Also, may as well not restrict vocab to N1 and D1. Add in D2 and N2, all the way up to even D10 and N10.
over 5 years
Third party roles should also indicate if they can win with town or not (aka not hostile or hostile)

hostile i think should be added as a vocab as well. Defintion being "town cannot win if they are alive."

Applies to cthulhu/cult/ww/killer/cm/mistletoe/zombies/cyborgs/etc.etc.etc. idk
over 5 years

shayneismyname says


Travis says


shayneismyname says

Honestly, while we are at it:

PR [Power Role] A Special townsided role that has powers over the Night.

Is this not a little vague? My understanding is that PR pertains to investigative and protective roles, but this definition does not specify that.Current PR definition just mentions that it does something at night. Snowman is nor PR.


I've always understood PR as any non-Villager role.
Though that definition definitely works better in IRL mafia where there isn't a million roles like in EM.


Maybe I am in my sandbox bubble, my in my understanding: PR means investigative or protective. You'd get called out for claiming PR if you were BlackSmith or whatnot.


Yeah in main any non-villagers are PRs including jailer/orc/drunk/bp ( i think) As Travis mentioned it works better when there's not that many non-villager roles such as in main, in sandbox doesn't really apply cuz villagers only exist in a lie (gallis/lm/king etc.). No one says PR anyway in sandbox pfft
over 5 years

Travis says


luis4rod says

some roles wont activate vocab unless there's a "the" before. And as far as I know Town Crier in any form doesn't activate vocab?


It's programmed in a way that it has to detect the vocab trigger as a noun to highlight it.
I explain this in more depth and the problems with it here: https://epicmafia.com/topic/92398?page=1&post_highlight=3171692


yeah i saw this after I posted lol, thank for the info, very neat!
over 5 years

Travis says


shayneismyname says

Honestly, while we are at it:

PR [Power Role] A Special townsided role that has powers over the Night.

Is this not a little vague? My understanding is that PR pertains to investigative and protective roles, but this definition does not specify that.Current PR definition just mentions that it does something at night. Snowman is nor PR.


I've always understood PR as any non-Villager role.
Though that definition definitely works better in IRL mafia where there isn't a million roles like in EM.


Maybe I am in my sandbox bubble, my in my understanding: PR means investigative or protective. You'd get called out for claiming PR if you were BlackSmith or whatnot.
over 5 years

shayneismyname says

Honestly, while we are at it:

PR [Power Role] A Special townsided role that has powers over the Night.

Is this not a little vague? My understanding is that PR pertains to investigative and protective roles, but this definition does not specify that.Current PR definition just mentions that it does something at night. Snowman is nor PR.


I've always understood PR as any non-Villager role.
Though that definition definitely works better in IRL mafia where there isn't a million roles like in EM.
over 5 years

luis4rod says

some roles wont activate vocab unless there's a "the" before. And as far as I know Town Crier in any form doesn't activate vocab?


It's programmed in a way that it has to detect the vocab trigger as a noun to highlight it.
I explain this in more depth and the problems with it here: https://epicmafia.com/topic/92398?page=1&post_highlight=3171692
over 5 years
Honestly, while we are at it:

PR [Power Role] A Special townsided role that has powers over the Night.

Is this not a little vague? My understanding is that PR pertains to investigative and protective roles, but this definition does not specify that.Current PR definition just mentions that it does something at night. Snowman is nor PR.
over 5 years
There is also lot on needless words in the current definitions. Some definitions say "This is a [definition'" where others say [Definition] foir instance

PR [Power Role] A Special townsided role that has powers over the Night.

RL [Random Lynch] This is an act where the Town decides to randomly lynch some one during the Day.

Change RL to say


RL [Random Lynch] An act where the Town decides to randomly lynch someone during the Day.
over 5 years
I'll get into my other issuer later, but WOW, the current main vocab has such un-uniformity. BW, CC, FOS, FMPOV, Gy, hypo, ny, mylo., lylo, ml, nl , omgus, pr, rl, all have periods at the end of the descriptions.

Bus, d1, hardclaim, lw, mc, n1, sc, slip, sui, sv, and veg ALL have no end punctuation.
over 5 years
Veggie
over 5 years
Yay thanks for this Shayne, very good breakdown of terms. For the item, definitely should be able to hover over the system message (like u suggest when a role dies) and description should say who can give our such items (ie. get a snowball, message is "can be given out by santa, snowman, fabricator, trickster"

Also just making vocab consistent, some roles wont activate vocab unless there's a "the" before. And as far as I know Town Crier in any form doesn't activate vocab? EDIT: Nevermind if you type "the Crier" it works lel

Bomb vocab in chat should always refer to the role I think but if we're adding vocab for items then idk but there's gotta be a way to distinguish that too

Also can we change lk to mean Lightkeeper instead of Lookout :^ )
over 5 years
NO AVI

MENTOR

gg