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Transferring Brains to Hard Drives

over 7 years

Obviously, if you scanned a brain's neurons and simulated them in a computer, you would only duplicate a human mind; the subject of the scan would have no cognizance in the copied brain.

However, what if this process was done slowly? That is, 1,000 brain cells were scanned at a time, destroyed, and then replaced with electronic components. Would the original brain assimilate the electronics or would it be an entirely different person?

Can human brains be converted into electronics while still being the same person?
4
Yes
4
No
over 7 years

nearbeer says


The says

I was telling OP that simply mimicking the structure of a brain isn't enough; proper synchronization would also need to be achieved.


Wouldn't mimicking the structure of the brain also by extension mimic the synchronization? What constitutes as the "structure" of the brain?


I think structure is typically considered the neurons and their connections, as OP suggested. Synchronization of neuron populations is separated, as seen in those with seizure disorders who have intact neural structure but then experience partial or total loss/alterations of consciousness through abnormal synchronicity.
over 7 years

The says

I was telling OP that simply mimicking the structure of a brain isn't enough; proper synchronization would also need to be achieved.


Wouldn't mimicking the structure of the brain also by extension mimic the synchronization? What constitutes as the "structure" of the brain?
over 7 years

cub says


The says

What happens when brain areas become desynchronized? Seizures.


you didnt even watch my video


I did. The procedure is done to prevent a seizure from becoming generalized (spanning both hemispheres), since seizures are neuron populations that enter a state of abnormal synchronization (hyper and/or desynchronization) and can spread their rogue signals through the brain. I was telling OP that simply mimicking the structure of a brain isn't enough; proper synchronization would also need to be achieved.

Create two separate synchronizations and you have two separate consciousnesses. Transfer one synchronization from an initial brain to another and you can potentially transfer consciousness. Synchronize two existing consciousnesses and you combine them.
over 7 years
Why would I transfer my brain to a harddrive when I could just run win95 screensavers on it?
over 7 years

The says

What happens when brain areas become desynchronized? Seizures.


you didnt even watch my video
over 7 years

riskitforthebiscuit says

If there are no original band members left, is it still the same band?


yes
over 7 years
I love science
over 7 years
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep11869

One of my favorite neuroengineering research papers to date. We can only wonder as to what the rats experienced when they were synchronized to multiple other brains.

The synchronicity is key here; we are not so much the sum of the parts that make up our brains as we are the synchronized rhythm of energy transfer across multiple brain regions.

What happens when brain areas become desynchronized? Seizures.
over 7 years

tigermom says

How would you measure if the person whose cells were change was the same person or not? He would think he is because h'd have all the memories from before but that doesn't constitute being the person.


If you never died during the transfer procedure, you would have to be the same person. I don't think the "soul", as you put it, is necessarily tied to brain cells. I believe it ties to a pattern of electric synapses.
If there are no original band members left, is it still the same band?
over 7 years
everyone would be bipolar
over 7 years
How would you measure if the person whose cells were change was the same person or not? He would think he is because h'd have all the memories from before but that doesn't constitute being the person.

This is similar to a scenario which I used to think about in the past. Let's say humans are not their bodies but actually souls which swap bodies (for instance) every 24 hours. When the swap bodies (cub becomes me, then after 24 hours she becomes Chaika, then yet after another 24 hours she becomes Alyssa and so on. This happens to all people on earth) they forget the memories and experiences they had in their previous life (so the soul that currently inhabits cub forgets she ever were cub) because those things are written into a body not into a soul (thus when the soul that currently inhabits cub comes into my body she learns all of the tigermom's body's memories etc.) Anyway if this were the case with humans on earth, there would be no way for us - the souls - to tell that we swap bodies every 24 hours, because right now I may think I have been tigermom for my whole life but those may just be memories that other souls inscribed into my body.

So this is merely an ethical question an answer to which we'll not be able to uncover : )
over 7 years
I put my brain in a SSD instead so that I become smarter.
over 7 years
it really is just like having two brains when you get to the phone part
over 7 years
over 7 years

cub says


The says

It's a much more realistic thought experiment if you connect someone with a second, unused brain (real or artificial) and then disconnect them, creating two functioning consciousnesses from one.


there's some surgery, something like a lobotomy but severing the connections between the cerebral hemispheres or something where they function somewhat independently, creating some kind of extremely disoriented product

i can't find it but i saw a video about whatever it was a long time ago


Yeah it's a corpus callosotomy. The two hemispheres not communicating creates weird effects on perception, but then the brain's higher structures try to fill in the gap in order to maintain a unified, albeit inaccurate, conscious state.
over 7 years
you have to fully understand something before you can replicate it

think about this analogy: we have cameras that can "see" extremely well, but we haven't developed any good eye implants from it. i think all existing optical implants see black and white at very low definition, likely still on a pixel grid

we can roughly approximate things but until we fully understand them we can't replicate them, so you really can't answer these sorts of questions with respect to modern technology

with hypothetical new technology that functions in some way we of yet can't fathom that allows it to process the seemingly infinite connections the brain functions on, along with knowledge on how the brain functions we of yet lack, yes you could simulate conscience and effectively clone a brain

to op: no, they would not assimilate. that doesn't make sense. neither would be functional during the process, that's like asking if you took wheels from one car and put them on another car if both cars with 2 wheels would combine to form one car with 4 wheels. they wouldn't, that's silly, go to your corner
over 7 years
If nothing else, the brain still responds differently to electromagnetism than a harddrive would do.
over 7 years
A computer program could simulate the physical structure of a neuron, down to the way information is stored and retrieved.
deletedover 7 years
If a brain that has been converted into electronics I don't think it can develop like a normal brain.
over 7 years

somethingwhatever says

what do u mean by same person tho


Obviously the wetware would be different. By the "same person", I mean in the mind.

I'm no neurologist, but I'd presume a psyche is defined by a sustained network of neural activity.

If your brain suddenly rearranged a large number of its neural connections (axons disconnected and reconnected to different neurons), I'd wager you'd be a different person, even if they were the same brain cells.
over 7 years
what do u mean by same person tho
over 7 years

The says

It's a much more realistic thought experiment if you connect someone with a second, unused brain (real or artificial) and then disconnect them, creating two functioning consciousnesses from one.


there's some surgery, something like a lobotomy but severing the connections between the cerebral hemispheres or something where they function somewhat independently, creating some kind of extremely disoriented product

i can't find it but i saw a video about whatever it was a long time ago
over 7 years
If you somehow changes the 4th dimension all of the persons that you knew will not be the same, will not be who they are, what influencies a human to take decision is their past and their conditions if you change the condition he may not take the same actions that he could do, so making this change will modify his present that would turn in his past that will influentiate in his future decisions, so I think that it will change the humans, somehow.