Epicmafia

Hate crimes don't exist

almost 8 years

Here's something the govt says:

Killing someone may land you 5, 10 years in jail.
Killing someone because they're a white person / Scientologist / wealthy / etc can land you in the big house for 15, 20 years.

Let's consider: in both cases the crime itself is identical. (assume someone who is sane and uncoerced chooses to kill another in "cold blood," a person dies, murder is bad, etc). But it's the kind of motivation that makes the two differ in penalistic gravity.

What separates a "hate crime" from an ordinary crime, then, that makes it a much more serious crime, is a person's religious or political leanings. Killing someone is a crime in and of itself -- but to punish a criminal even more for their unpopular ideology makes hate crimes (legally) in the category of "thought crimes", in effect granting the authority to tell people that certain mental states / beliefs are criminal. We can see "hate crimes" as being a property/personhood crime accompanied by a (legally designated) crime of speech/communication/political beliefs, then.

The bummer news about that is that the First Amendment of the United States says that people are entitled to free speech -- that is to say, no US court can declare speech or belief to be criminal.

A "hate crime" is thus unconstitutional in the United States, as well as any other country which grants the freedom of speech. As much as punks and Christian-killing radical Muslims (of which, there are many) really grind my gears, I can't think of any reason why we should pretend that "hate crimes" are a necessary for justice to be served. If someone commits a real crime, punish them for that. But leave the thought policing to North Korea, China, and clinics that cure transvestism and other forms of mental illness.

If today, people can be thrown in jail for 10 years just because they don't like (insert group here), who's to say that people won't be thrown in jail for critiquing governments or institutions guilty of crimes in the future? (or making hatred a crime in and of itself, even when it is justified) It's clear that hate crimes could only gain bipartisan support within the US because liberals want to force everyone to be nice and conservatives want to profit from people being held in prison unnecessarily,

Expecting some SJW hate here. Well go read the Constitution, 1984, and Atlas Shrugged, then rethink your assumptions before you respond with the same kind of hatred which you don't think people are welcome to have ( ※ -- a contradiction)

deletedalmost 8 years

"Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons."

-ARTICLE I, SECTION 2, CLAUSE 3

Ah yes, the revered holy document, from which we should model the lives of everyone after it forever. So relevant. So smart.

thecolonel

almost 8 years

at the end of the day its all love

deletedalmost 8 years

I don't think an 18th century document should govern the fates of everyone to come after it forever, as if the world were completely static.

That seems kind of anachronistic and wrongheaded to me. But that's just me!

thecolonel

almost 8 years

i dont believe people are capable of hatred

deletedalmost 8 years

I think the constitution is pretty gosh darned stupid, myself.

Peta

almost 8 years

"Expecting some SJW hate here. Well go read the Constitution"

The Constitution and federal law specifically protect identified classes of minorities. Maybe you are the one who should go read it.

Bobit

almost 8 years

If you say that motivation doesn't matter for murder it shouldn't matter for any other crime imo. But that means no insanity pleads, no self-defense, etc.

deletedalmost 8 years

Isn't murder in general a hate crime? I mean unless you accidentally kill someone w/o any real motive(possibly hitting them w/ a car or etc) then I honestly doubt you're killing them because you like them. Even in the midst of anger/rage or some other emotion, if you REALLY cared about someone you wouldn't kill them.

likmynut

almost 8 years

I love how you used the example of killing someone because they are white

yoyo200900

almost 8 years

i will tell you why killing someone based on perceived characteristics is worse than killing someone for reasons like revenge. consider how quickly society would deteriorate if everyone decided to commit hate crime murders - very quickly. now consider how quickly society would deteriorate if everyone decided to revenge kill people whenever it suited them - not so quickly. in fact, i'd estimate that society would deteriorate three times faster if everyone were committing hate crime murders than if they were committing revenge murders. for that reason, hate crime murderers deserve three times the sentence of a revenge killer, because they are being three times as immoral.

thecolonel

almost 8 years

Pinche says

black lives matter

brave stance

mememagic

almost 8 years

JohnnyBravo says

I love how all Americans have such a hard-on for their constitution, every country has one but it's always the Americans who treat theirs like the word of God, something sacred and perfect that can never be changed. I guess it's due to lack of national history that they had to come up with that .

i mean, the country was founded on it and the united states is a fairly new country in relation to other world superpowers

JohnnyBravo

almost 8 years

I love how all Americans have such a hard-on for their constitution, every country has one but it's always the Americans who treat theirs like the word of God, something sacred and perfect that can never be changed. I guess it's due to lack of national history that they had to come up with that .

mememagic

almost 8 years

these days its a hate crime to hate on muslims even though they want anyone who contradicts them or opposes their views to be killed.

deletedalmost 8 years

I love the thought process here. You really do bring a good point with how it contradicts the Constitution, although all of this stuff may only apply to the U.S or any other country with a similar amendment. But, I believe that the amendment is able to restrict "free speech" in cases where it harms the well-being of others. So, note that hate crime was made to deter biased-motivated crimes, right? Well, if a person murders another purely because of his ideas or beliefs, then not only the person committed murder but his ideas pushed him to physically harm that person.

Satan

almost 8 years

who cares

deletedalmost 8 years

Hi Jeff

deletedalmost 8 years

Hmm I get your point and I kinda agree. I think it's useless to separate hate crime and ordinary crime since the judge is already supposed to take into consideration the circumstances of the offence/type of crime/any other factor related to the offence/offender before giving a sentence (and I'm talking about Canadian laws only since I don't really know US laws).

deletedalmost 8 years

black lives matter