In my opinion, we should be adding roles not taking any away. I mean that is the point of a Sandbox in like any game you play is that you can do anything. Just my opinion though, plus if roles get taken away there's always gonna be people that get mad cus they're fave role got taken away or some crap.
imo lover should stay. I'd like to see 3rd not have to be unique. Would be more fun to potentially have two of the same 3rds. Remove thulhu. Remove CM. Remove maid. Keep lover. Remove mistletoe. Remove prophet (just plain boring role). Do not add quack, shrink, autocrat, pathologist (again just boring), politician. ADD MILLER
Add invisible man (seriously, why isn't it added? it's great), consigliere (could possibly make game more interesting), saboteur (more fake guns=more fun). Get rid of baker (too many suiciders), fiddler (it's only good for ruining the game), silencer (it's only good for ruining the game), bleeder (it's absolutely useless but at least you get to survive for a day knowing that you're dead anyway).
Keep lover. It's a great role. So is mistle. Just keep them.
If you remove alien and journalist and change nothing else I will be a happy player.
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wait i correct myself no zombies i was thinking of a specific setup where theyre actually ok
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here's my take:
remove: -journalist. everyone hates journ and suis as it. -priest. effectively useless. you basically only learn the mafia if you die (save for the once in a blue moon stalker or something) and otherwise dont really got anything. no one likes priest. -baker. it's become a troll roll. everyone claims virgin with it, breads one person and vegs, or sui's. please, just ditch it. -keymaker. no one likes keymaker. seriously. -angel. useless. no one likes it. it just clears someone and is useless. -survivor. literally what does this do. why is it there. no one likes vivor and it doesnt really provide fun. -mistletoe. maybe. too much townsiding. basically becomes a cop. -maid. for reasons said above. not a fun role. -lover. has no purpose outside of maybe siding with mafia and basically becoming a grudge killer. its not fun.
add: -pathologist. kind of an awful mafia claim, but it could be fun... if it's used right never seen that. -invisible man. why isnt this already in sandbox's. -shrink. as a cthulhu counter. otherwise cthulhu is just boring and useless without cult. -secretary. i dont know if it's bugged or not, but if it's not, that could provide some interesting conflict concerning having to choose who to save (esp if mylo) or virgin outs or something. -zombie. theyre fun?? why does everyone hate the zombies. -blinder. for shiggles, really. -consigliere. could add some fun to the game, as you're basically clear and can secretly townside until a critical moment. not as op as godfather since you dont have the meetings.
please no autocrat.
feel free to respond to this but i cant promise i'm gonna debate this too much. idk.
just looked up pathologist, that is the best and most fairest way to interact with a dead player I think I've seen, especially as it doesn't matter if the dead player left the game
Clockmaker should stay, even though it's basically super saiyan killer, because despite the fact that they can win n1 (then again, so can Granny), at least CM has interesting mechanics and isn't a boring role.
Maid should stay for the same reason. It screws up everyones game by changing who's what, but at the same time, because Maids can't win, it offers a new way to go about things which just makes the game more interesting in the long run.
Angel just needs to be buffed so that her protection is as strong as a Monk's.
Autocrat pls go.
Politician pls go.
Invisible man is a must in any new setup.
Cthulhu and Lover are not unfun roles. Yes, they're pretty much useless in 90% of games, but at the same time they add flavor to the game just by being there.
Baker just needs to be nerfed so that famine isn't as much of a death sentence as it is right now (i.e. if veg = no famine).
Other roles to consider adding:
Blinder - Fun role that basically makes it LK day for one unlucky person.
Pathologist - Strong post-mortem role that actually works (unlike Mortician).
Official list of unfair roles: -Clockmaker (N1 win no fun, and the killer is just a weaker version of the clockmaker which isn't fair) -Maid (potentially ruins everything for mafia N1, maided maf no longer has a win condition and can freely out every partner or generally do whatever he wants without it being considered game throwing)
official list of unfun roles: -Cthulhu (nothing actually wrong with him, but as he very often appears without cult, it's not fun to be kept alive by town throughout the whole game to help find maf and then be lynched by them at the end) -Lover (most games you're essentially picking someone to lose with you, and can do nothing interesting on top of that)
