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Bring Democracy to EpicMafia

deletedalmost 10 years

With increased tensions between mods & users of late, most recently the resignation of slow, I wanted to add to the discussion on how to ease the tensions between moderators and players by giving my suggestions on changes I believe make the site more representative for all parties involved. I've dubbed this The Smorlicious Plan (lol)

Suggestion 1 - Create Referendums

I don't mean polls, I don't mean petitions, I mean honest to god anonymous referendums that give the player base a 48-72 hour voting period on which they can vote on important issues on the site.

In its current state, EM is a benign oligarchy* with a few democratic features. Often times the mods make quick decisions without the community's consent, which is often seen as unfair and not representative of the community's opinion The only true way a player can hope to influence change on EM is through the forums where they can voice their own opinions and hope that the mods listen. This is the only form of power the EM players have when it comes to decisions made by the mods.

For example, a better way the merge of lobbies that occurred a couple months ago could have been handled was that we left the decision up to popular vote/referendum. The mods were considering on making a new tier system that would have changed training so that training players streamed into comp lobby. With this came a huge outcry and intense debate, a petition, and change was made over night, leaving many comp players frustrated and blaming the mods when in reality it was training the mainly forced the change.

Adding referendums on certain decisions give players more power over what happens to them and their lobbies, and so it gives them a voice. That said, only players with above a set number of points between 1000-10,000 should be privileged to vote in ref.

Suggestion 2 - Edit how reports are handled

It's ridiculous how many reports there are. Handling reports is only one job of the moderators, not their entire duty. It's simply unfair how many they have to handle. To this, I suggest changing the policy of how they are handled. I think if someone is reporting another person, the other person should comment on the report and state their defense. If they do not do such, then I think the mods should just give them the report being filed against them without bothering to check if they actually did the offence or not. If you can't be bothered to write your own defense, then the mods shouldn't waste their time making sure the report is handled with care, because obviously you don't care enough to write back. If it is obvious the person filing the report is doing it out of a grudge or mal intent, they should receive a violation instead for wasting mods time. Likewise, if it obvious the person who comments and gives their defense is clearly lieing (forcing the mods to look into their case), they should receive double violation for again wasting mods time. I think this system will make players think twice about reporting and doing wrong in games. *I realize this is not perfect, but I think this can work if we edit in the right way

Suggestion 3 - Crack down on mod corruption

I support most of what the mods do, but nothing infuriates me more than when a mod, the person who is given power to determine over reports, breaks the rules and gets off scott-free or with little consequences. If a mod breaks the rules, they are not suited to be in a modding position on em, and should be demodded.

That's all I have so far. :PP I realize not everyone will like this, so I'm open to other people's opinions on what can be done to make the situation on EM better.

TL;DR version,

S1 - Allow Referendums to happen on certain decisions S2 - change how reports are handled so the burden of proof is on the reported person. S3 - get rid of mods that break the rules.

almost 10 years
In my experience new players are treated very lenient, they often get notes and an explanation.
deletedalmost 10 years
Reports are high because offenses are high. If your argument is ease restrictions...then which are you talking about.

We all play games with people who intentionally gamethrow or grudgelynch all the time. Should this not be reportable?

And reports should be a minor role the mods play? reports should be the major role mods play. Mods are only on this site to moderate the game. Moderating the forum was more of an afterthought.
almost 10 years
well then, yeah. mistakes, whether due to being new or out of anger, should be reported less and punished less. delaying the ability to report might help a little (suggested somewhere else)

imo there's just a lack of positive reinforcement nowadays. back in the training days people were more accepting of mistakes, mods talked to the community often, etc. but now there's just no voice helping new/bad players, leading everyone to just report each other. (maybe that's just nostalgia and it was equally bad back then.)
almost 10 years
This is not my experience at all. The amount of and harassment I took for making mistakes as a new player was not pretty. And being suspended for 24 hours TWICE for a GT report where -I- didn't make an conscious mistake (one was OT'ed completely, the other was OT'ed to ISP) in the 3-4 months I've been playing here is something I've -never- experienced in ANY online game before. Even though I pretty much suck at everything I try to play :P
almost 10 years
mm, like I know in league and other games people report bad players out of sheer frustration and malice. but i didn't know that kind of stuff happened on em. i thought em was pretty noob friendly and didn't weaponize reports, especially training lobby era
almost 10 years

Lashka says


Happy0wns says

so what about people that just don't care.


Don't take part then!!!


but where would I be without getting my daily fill of people complaining about "how bad mods are" "sites dumb" "People are so mean to us mods" etc lmao, its a good source of entertainment when I got some down time

other times its quite pathetic.
deletedalmost 10 years

Happy0wns says

so what about people that just don't care.


Don't take part then!!!
almost 10 years
"far more lol games" - true, but i'm speaking per game -i- play. I can play 20 lol games and make tons of mistakes but not get reported. I can play 1 epicmafia game and make a mistake, get reported and get suspended. It has happened. I am SURE it will happen again.

You could change lol with almost any online game - this site has among the harshest punishments i've -ever- experienced, and I've been an active online gamer since MUDS in the early 90s. And tbh, what does it really matter if someone gt's once in a while? It's better to take -actual trolling-, which isn't something that happens in ONE game, than to punish a player like me that is actually trying to play (albeit sometimes i'm tired or just unfocused and make silly mistakes like not killing cop as maf).


LadyNemesis says

Luckily there's an appeal system for mistakes.


Sure. But this takes time and energy - and you have to argue your case. In the meanwhile you're suspended for 24 hours, which nobody can give back. And this kind of punishment doesn't make me a better player. All it does it make me resent the mods who did a poor job with the report - and this is what we're talking about here, isn't it? I can completely understand why people start trolling and start resenting the community and the mods.

The system is flawed. Since I will be punished for poor plays, I will also make sure to report anyone that does mistakes. And downward spiral we go. When the entire community is in the mode of reporting rather than teaching, we're not a healthy community. The problems the mods are facing isn't because the mods do a poor job (but with the workload they have, they are BOUND to make poor decisions at times), it's because the community is in the mindset that anyone that ruins your fifteen minutes of gametime should be punished severly. And if you can pin a technicality on them, GREAT! Report them! Chances are, they will be suspended.
almost 10 years

Happy0wns says


Lashka says

Lashka23h 18m
+13
People who want mods & users to be equals and it all to be seamless - Socialists

People who want more freedom and less moderation - Liberals

People who want to keep the status quo - Conservatives

People who want to roll back changes to the glorified olden days - Reactionaries



so what about people that just don't care.


LOL this though cuz thats true
almost 10 years

Lashka says

Lashka23h 18m
+13
People who want mods & users to be equals and it all to be seamless - Socialists

People who want more freedom and less moderation - Liberals

People who want to keep the status quo - Conservatives

People who want to roll back changes to the glorified olden days - Reactionaries



so what about people that just don't care.
almost 10 years
oh wow, i never noticed that. lol. well it's not used for anything too important, or i would have heard about it ... i think?
almost 10 years
there actually is a lobby poll, it's on the side of the lobby page just scroll more
almost 10 years
S1 - already happened - polls have been and continue to be used for checking general consensus on issues; problem is it never got a lobby-page implementation (cough lucid cough)

S2 - guilty until proven innocent, as hibiki said, is a bad idea for this kind of game site (and for most, at any rate)

S3 - then there would be no mods left to mod
almost 10 years
people with moderate beliefs would be... the Moderators
/leaves
deletedalmost 10 years
Lashka23h 22m
+13
Maybe xxerox is onto something. We should divide into "Socialists", "Liberals" "Conservatives" and "Reactionaries" and have democratically elected admins & mods standing from each party. Genius idea.

Lashka23h 18m
+13
People who want mods & users to be equals and it all to be seamless - Socialists

People who want more freedom and less moderation - Liberals

People who want to keep the status quo - Conservatives

People who want to roll back changes to the glorified olden days - Reactionaries


Perfect.



I am afraid I beat you to the punch, Smorlicious.
almost 10 years
kill me shacky i'm ready
almost 10 years
all mods are corrupt. kill all mods
deletedalmost 10 years

Hibiki says

referendums will never happen because they require being built and the majority of the epicmafia userbase wouldn't bother voting




The lobby poll right now is garbage and has been mainly garbage for a while. Every time a big decision wants to be made, put it in the main lobby poll. Might not work but fixes the current problem of nobody using the poll. Maybe also bring it up on the page more so it is not so difficult to find. Just in my humble onion.
almost 10 years
Luckily there's an appeal system for mistakes.
almost 10 years
I think he meant mods (accidentally) giving GT vios for mistakes. He is saying the bar to prove someone had the intent to throw is too low (and should be raised to ensure only those that are trolls get it, hence the multiple games thing). At least that's how I read it.

(Appeals wouldnt really matter if the mods have the same "low" bar)
almost 10 years

noxon says

I think the fact that you can be suspended and earn a -6- month violation for doing something -stupid- in a ranked game is WAY to harsh


except you can't. because if you do something stupid then you're not actually throwing. unless you're saying that someone throwing is the stupid thing they did in which case why are you OK with throwing

stop bumping this bad thread
almost 10 years
well, there are far more lol games than em games
if everyone on em got 1 free opportunity to gamethrow, you'd see someone gamethrow way more often

the problem is that there aren't many way to punish users. i agree that gamethrowing in a non-comp game shouldn't be an instant 24hr suspension but what else can you do
almost 10 years
The amounts of reports is ridiculous for sure, but it's because the punishments are so high for even pretty minor stuff. Community is easy to anger, and they report while hotheaded hoping that the guy they report will be punished for losing them their game.

While I think it's fair that you get punished for playing against your win condition in competitions, I think the fact that you can be suspended and earn a -6- month violation for doing something -stupid- in a ranked game is WAY to harsh. GT violations should be judged in ranked more because of intent than it often is today. And intent should be something that repeats over multiple games, not just a single game. In fact, I think reporting should be discouraged on any games outside of competitions... It should be just the most adamant trolls, not players who just are temporarily dumb.

I mean, i bet we could get rid of a lot of dumb reports if the ability of reporting in red heart games were delayed by like 15 minutes after the game...

YOu can throw 20 games in LOL without being put on the tribunal. Throw one game in EM....
almost 10 years
Smor, this is a gaming website. The average person won't be making arguments over their defense: they are here to have fun. Commenting even requires points which they might not have, or they simply not know what to say.

I could ban people that I know wouldn't reply easily, without actually knowing them or them breaking any rules. It's bad.

The first one has been tried sort if and is bad as well. Many users don't bother to read all of the arguments and will vote just based on first impressions. Popular vote only works when there are informed opinions and people are thinking not for themselves but for the better of everyone. Plus many people simply won't vote or the trolls will spam it. Polls are somewhat useful to see a general trend but complete democracy doesn't work here
deletedalmost 10 years
Also, the average epicmafia user is an imbecile who shouldn't have any say in important site-matters.