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internal issues with the mod team

Sims
almost 10 years

i wasn't planning on making a thread about this but i was having a conversation with someone and i had a realization that this is probably an issue that needs to be discussed in some capacity.

to start, the mods have this idea that the entire site is against them. because of this they try to minimize every sort of conflict possible, whether it be internal or external. most administrative decisions are becoming "how can i stop people from complaining," and for me at least, it made being a mod frustrating and not fun.

i'm not entirely sure how the mod team adopted this culture of appeasing every possible party, but from the inside at least, it's pretty obvious. mods aren't allowed to post on the forums or get into arguments at all, even as regular users, and it's a huge sacrifice of individuality. because of this, they're pretty much forced to take every insult directed at them with a smile, and it's created a culture of self-pitying, spineless mods that can't take any criticism. they can put it under the guise of professionalism, but at the end of the day there is no individuality there, and the mods are forced to meet the ridiculous standards of professionalism that vancy and others have set for them. there's a reason why you don't have mods that are regular forum posters anymore. regardless of how good of a choice they'd be, they aren't modded because they're either deemed "too unprofessional," "too controversial," or "not a team player." this means that most new mods are going to be spineless conformists that are afraid to disagree or have a mind of their own, just because if they do happen to disagree, they aren't being a good "team member."

when dan was an admin, he set up a good foundation for the moderators. i think he has a bachelor's in human resources or something, so that's probably where it stemmed from. either way, when he was an admin, all of us worked together efficiently and happily, and there weren't really any stragglers. that's because he had a really good attitude about being an administrator that i don't really think any other admin has had. dan was a leader, but he treated the mod team as a business with a very horizontal structure, where pretty much everyone was an equal, including him. that kind of attitude removed unhealthy conflict and created an atmosphere where everyone wanted to help each other. this idea of everyone being equal should come naturally, but for vancy and some other mods, it doesn't. there is blatant favoritism between the admins and mods, and between the mods themselves.

on top of that, vancy has somewhat of an authoritarian attitude where he isn't working with the mods, but the mods are working /for/ him and they have to answer /to/ him. this kind of attitude is absolutely ridiculous and creates an incredibly unhealthy and vitriolic atmosphere where it feels like if you disagree with him, you're working against him. there's no room for any sort of healthy conflict or discussion, because at the end of the day he has the final say. i've experienced it firsthand and i'm sure some mods agree with me too.

in summary: the mods have created this culture where they think everyone is against them so they try to reduce complaints as much as possible and it made them spineless, only "professional people" that will "work well with the team" can be modded, there is blatant favoritism between the admins and mods and the mods themselves, and vancy has an attitude that he isn't working with the mods but the mods are working for him.

this isn't meant to be an attack on vancy. i don't want him to respond. if he does, i'm sure he'll disagree with me on most of this, and i wouldn't blame him if he did, but this is what i noticed when i came back as a mod, and i never had these issues when dan was around. at the end of the day, mod culture sucks.

deletedalmost 10 years

Sims says

e.g. roshiez's thread about harassment, not a single mod commented that it was being looked at until vancy ot'd it, and that gives off the image that vancy had to strong-arm an ot


Rutab did comment, actually.
Sims
almost 10 years
e.g. roshiez's thread about harassment, not a single mod commented that it was being looked at until vancy ot'd it, and that gives off the image that vancy had to strong-arm an ot
justrec
almost 10 years

Sims says

people make reports public for a slew of reasons. mods should have the right to state their opinion on it as long as they do it constructively and without belittling whoever handled the original report


refer to steven's last post. it answers this perfectly.
deletedalmost 10 years

Nonon says


Lashka says

Admins are leaders. They have to Lead. If someone doesn't respect the admin's decisions, that's tough for them. It's not self-pitying or being spineless to respect his right to tell his mods what to do, nor is it authoritarian to tell your mods what to do sometimes. Unless you're saying that me and Sacha (and Alex, though you may have a point there) were authoritarian admins anyway. Mods have always been held to a higher standard... because they're mods. And mods who have refused or failed that standard, were removed.


yeah, sure, this might apply if the admin is paying the mods. but he's not. they're volunteers.


And as volunteers have the ability to leave at any moment if they don't like how they're being lead.
Sims
almost 10 years
people make reports public for a slew of reasons. mods should have the right to state their opinion on it as long as they do it constructively and without belittling whoever handled the original report
deletedalmost 10 years

Lashka says

Admins are leaders. They have to Lead. If someone doesn't respect the admin's decisions, that's tough for them. It's not self-pitying or being spineless to respect his right to tell his mods what to do, nor is it authoritarian to tell your mods what to do sometimes. Unless you're saying that me and Sacha (and Alex, though you may have a point there) were authoritarian admins anyway. Mods have always been held to a higher standard... because they're mods. And mods who have refused or failed that standard, were removed.


yeah, sure, this might apply if the admin is paying the mods. but he's not. they're volunteers.
justrec
almost 10 years

ballsy says


justrec says


ballsy says

"only "professional people" that will "work well with the team" can be modded"
Not all mods act professional, sometimes I wonder how they even got modded.


they are trying to argue that mods shouldn't have to be professional and should be able to be immature and sarcastic and disrespectful at times


I only have experience with site mods based in sandbox and they already do all of that lol.


yep, we aren't used to moderators on site who act like that, but this is epicmafia
deletedalmost 10 years

Sims says

disagreeing with a colleague doesn't create drama. and if the report gets overturned the first mod will look bad anyway, so it's better to fill them in in the meantime


Disagreeing with a colleague in front of the rest of the office in a sarcastic tone actually does create drama.
justrec
almost 10 years

Sims says

disagreeing with a colleague doesn't create drama. and if the report gets overturned the first mod will look bad anyway, so it's better to fill them in in the meantime


these problems should be between you, that mod that did the report, and if you want to make it known that you do not agree, the other mods and admin. when you make it public, it becomes unnecessary drama.
Sims
almost 10 years
im trying to argue that only spineless people that are afraid to disagree are/will be modded, but I tried to sugarcoat it to not be as harsh
deletedalmost 10 years

Lashka says

I don't know who "they" is given I've disagreed with that since the start, justrec.


Perhaps "they" are not you?

~Skeptilogic
deletedalmost 10 years

justrec says


ballsy says

"only "professional people" that will "work well with the team" can be modded"
Not all mods act professional, sometimes I wonder how they even got modded.


they are trying to argue that mods shouldn't have to be professional and should be able to be immature and sarcastic and disrespectful at times


I only have experience with site mods based in sandbox and they already do all of that lol.
Steven
almost 10 years

Sims says

steven, if I disagree with a report and someone complains about it on the forum, I'd like to be able to post and tell them the decision wasn't unanimous


I shouldn't even see the comments cuz I get too tempted to reply quickly and man I need to go>_>

All this does though is discredit the other mods. Why would you even do this. "Yeah man, sorry that your appeal got sustained and it can't be OT'd, but I disagree with the decision". That only will lead to more complaints and make the mod team look like they can't even agree on their own rules. If the situation is such that your opinion will still have an effect , then you can just use it in mod chat or mod forums to get it OT'd and then only after it's changed explain why you disagreed with the opinion and apologize for the incorrect first decision
AdrenalineMime
almost 10 years
@why disagree publicly

because the mod team (collectively) has PTSD from the old days when they got crucified for every little thing and it was plausible they would not only lose modship but get shunned out of the community entirely

none of this happens anymore of course. well, as far as i know
deletedalmost 10 years
I don't know who "they" is given I've disagreed with that since the start, justrec.
Sims
almost 10 years
disagreeing with a colleague doesn't create drama. and if the report gets overturned the first mod will look bad anyway, so it's better to fill them in in the meantime
justrec
almost 10 years

ballsy says

"only "professional people" that will "work well with the team" can be modded"
Not all mods act professional, sometimes I wonder how they even got modded.


they are trying to argue that mods shouldn't have to be professional and should be able to be immature and sarcastic and disrespectful at times
deletedalmost 10 years
"only "professional people" that will "work well with the team" can be modded"
Not all mods act professional, sometimes I wonder how they even got modded.
justrec
almost 10 years

Sims says

steven, if I disagree with a report and someone complains about it on the forum, I'd like to be able to post and tell them the decision wasn't unanimous


that's called creating drama. it is not needed.
deletedalmost 10 years
Why? What good does that do other than make the first mod look bad?

By all means, post that it'll be reviewed. But you don't need to go to the forums every time you disagree with something and it's a good thing most mods don't.
deletedalmost 10 years
That might even make someone's day.
justrec
almost 10 years

Steven says

Not even, why do you need to state your disagreement on the forums? If things are being looked at, then just talk about it with other mods and state your opinion there. If things are already set in stone, all it does is make the other side complain more because there's clear divisions in the mod team

Now I'll really sleep peace


this is a very good opinion. i didn't even know these are the situations we were talking about. if the situations are the same as this, i agree 150%. no need to post your opinion when things can be handled behind the scenes.
Sims
almost 10 years
steven, if I disagree with a report and someone complains about it on the forum, I'd like to be able to post and tell them the decision wasn't unanimous
justrec
almost 10 years

Sims says

frankly I'd rather have a sarcastic mod that is serious when he needs to be than a mod that is serious all the time and comes off as smarmy and insincere


i highly disagree, if this is what you think the problem is, i think there is no problem. either way, i still see mods with their sarcastic attitude post on the forums so these mods you are complaining about aren't being listened to anyway.
Steven
almost 10 years
Not even, why do you need to state your disagreement on the forums? If things are being looked at, then just talk about it with other mods and state your opinion there. If things are already set in stone, all it does is make the other side complain more because there's clear divisions in the mod team

Now I'll really sleep peace