I was talking to Apostasy in one of our games in this setup, and we don't agree on if the pr should claim. I believe they should not because of practice of O2R, C14, LoBL, and STBS. None of these setups claim because there is no support for a clear d3. I know other setups like BV and VDLI claim d1, but those have good chances of a clear being around. He suggests that they should just claim so there are 2 pr to lead d1 (which might still be cc'd).
The other thing I would worry about is some of the cases that can come from it. The problem I see from it is the fact that every setup there is a doc there is also a hooker, similar with the watcher having a ninja. These don't truly protect the pr's, and reports are lost out unless town lynches a maf d1. If they lynch correctly d1 it wouldn't matter so much, but if they fail, town is close to screwed. So what's the pick?
Should the prs claim D1?
7
Of course not
4
They should 100%
0
Idk
deletedabout 10 years
TLDR: PR literally has to claim as PR or the setup doesn't work.
There's 4 possible power roles; tracker, cop, doctor, watcher.
Mafia can claim whichever two aren't in the setup day 1 (Which they know what are) and prevent even a 1% chance of them getting lynched. Unless you're intending to lynch prs without ccs, in which case you have a high chance to screw yourself over. Because of this fact, you literally /NEED/ to claim prs as pr day 1. Which probably locks in 3way lylo but things can be worse.
Side note; watcher should watch themselves if ninja isn't killed, since watching the other won't achieve anything via ninja and they can catch hooker in watcher/doctor setup that way.
But just did and got hammer d1 and lynched tracker d2. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
deletedabout 10 years
Another reason to claim PR day one is that mafia knows the setup and can fish anyway, which results in the same situation as if mafia ccs a PR claim (Which they never do)
if they're playing suboptimally then it works it's just not a winning strategy long-term
deletedabout 10 years
I still disagree. Without knowing the setup, as town there's a reasonable chance it's a watcher setup in which case hitting a PR isn't even safe, and as long as I advocate it every game I get to take advantage of the times where I'm mafia and doctor and cop both claimed as PR. Additionally, I haven't seen mafia cc PR one single time yet.
My problem comes mostly from the ninja. The watcher is close to useless unless he can get ninja lynched d1. With each role showing up 3 times, that means that half the time the town will not have anything going for it when a pr other than the watcher dies n2. Let's not forget how god awful noobs are after a doc saves n2 and they worry about mylo.
i dont really like it.. i think when prs hide that town scumhunts more and creates a better picture instead of just trying to get the clears to lynch who you want them to lynch. also, if theres talking, and lots of it, then if there ever is a pr cc, then the real pr will (hopefully) be obvious by that time based on scumhunting
tl;dr the more town scumhunts , the better, i feel, and that comes as a result of PRs hiding.
I don't think it's a bad strategy, it just can be adapted to which ultimately makes things difficult - and 3p lylo with no clears and no interactions is extremely difficult
I think the main reason PRs don't get cc'd in LOBL is because it's daystart, with dawnstart - mafia can coordinate ccs a bit better and figure out the setup ahead of time and organize a decent cc. If mafia ccs and wins, you're going into a 3way no clear situation with potentially no reports if you lynch and kill PRs.
I think no claims is more fun and the reward of having both PRs alive with potentially good reports is worth hiding for. However, the advantages of two clears day 1 is nice and potential autowin from reports day 2.
I think you'll really have to gauge it based on the table.
deletedabout 10 years
Unless someone better than me (Like Gira, who is reading this thread!) provides me with a cogent and logical explanation for why PR's should not claim as PR day one I'm going to do it every game of 4x4 I play.
deletedabout 10 years
In that case you have them hard claim and are guaranteed at the very least 3 way no clears, which also is not that bad. In my experience scum doesn't cc PR though, they are v. afraid.
the thing is, any savvy scum is going to claim PR if you decide to have them out day 1, which leads to an extremely difficult lynch and widespread chaos
i'd say it's up to personal preference and how you want to play the setup. if the prs stay hidden they'll probably be cced but if they both survive until day 2 the town has an advantage, having 2 clears day has its benefits too.
deletedabout 10 years
I think it's optimal because you have two clears to lead day one, and in some of the setups maf risks being caught by watcher or letting the doc save. If PRs claim day one, the worst case scenario day two is 1 PR , 2 scum, and 3 blues which isn't really that bad, and that's only if you lynch a blue AND mafia manages to kill a PR.
