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Weird Statistic Artefact ? ? ?

over 9 years

I looked at my last ten games and the roles assigned to the boxes on the post-game report.

  • 1) - M (4), C (), P (), T ()
  • 2) - M (4), C (), P (), T ()
  • 3) - M (), C (), P (), T ()
  • 4) - M (1), C (), P (), T ()
  • 5) - M (), C (), P (), T ()
  • 6) - M (4), C (), P (), T ()
  • 7) - M (5), C (), P (), T ()

Clearly the only explanation is jetfuel can't melt steel beams.

over 9 years
machines cannot produce random numbers.
over 9 years

VictoriaEldor says


Kellyn says

Victoria, I think you are little confused on how the degree of freedom works. The number of degrees is dependent on the number of outcomes (PR, Maf, Cop, Blue) Therefore your df would equal 4, or, as we do it in the stat world (n-1), your df would equal 3. Also I just used .05 significance because that's the standard we use in stats.

Of course, you can do any test you would like but the results would still be similar.


Right, the number of possible outcomes for one dice with seven sides will be 7. However if we are using two dice, we have 7^2 Possible outcomes. Can you see where I'm going? I don't think that just because some faces of the dice are the same, that each of the dice' facets are actually non-unique.

Villager number 2 is a still a villager with a value of 2, even if they are functionally the same as villager 1 and 3.

Also the reason that people see streaks of heads or tails more or less often is because there are less instances where Heads can land 10 Times in a row compared to other variations.

We flip a coin 10x.

10 heads, 0 tails: 1/1024 = 0.1%
9 heads, 1 tails: 10/1024 = 1.0%
8 heads, 2 tails: 45/1024 = 4.4%
7 heads, 3 tails: 120/1024 = 11.7%
6 heads, 4 tails: 210/1024 = 20.5%
5 heads, 5 tails: 252/1024 = 24.6%
4 heads, 6 tails: 210/1024 = 20.5%
3 heads, 7 tails: 120/1024 = 11.7%
2 heads, 8 tails: 45/1024 = 4.4%
1 heads, 9 tails: 10/1024 = 1.0%
0 heads, 10 tails: 1/1024 = 0.1%

Is this not making sense to anyone yet? It's because there are 252 Ways for combinations of heads and tails to equal a 5-5 Tally, it's just that in only one of those cases does 10 - 0 Appear.

Hence this is demonstrated in normal distributions all the time, and it commonly forms a bell that can be seen just by turning that table on its side.


same
over 9 years
Come back with an argument and I might change my mind. At what point has anyone provided evidence to the contrary for the last week? They have stated a premise, but unlike them I have went and done trials to support mine.

You come back, when you can prove you've even lifted a finger.
over 9 years
Determination is one thing, but if you're an elephant who keeps trying to scale a 50 foot wall, that's a whole different thing. Your premise is flawed and no matter what anyone tells you is going to change your opinion so why are you even trying? Come back with an open mind and maybe you'll have an actual debate
over 9 years

Zhuorb says

Forum ban this dude please thanks


Is it that amazing to meet people with more stamina? In your case, no.
over 9 years
Forum ban this dude please thanks
over 9 years
Lol you're still at it.
over 9 years

Kellyn says

Victoria, I think you are little confused on how the degree of freedom works. The number of degrees is dependent on the number of outcomes (PR, Maf, Cop, Blue) Therefore your df would equal 4, or, as we do it in the stat world (n-1), your df would equal 3. Also I just used .05 significance because that's the standard we use in stats.

Of course, you can do any test you would like but the results would still be similar.


Right, the number of possible outcomes for one dice with seven sides will be 7. However if we are using two dice, we have 7^2 Possible outcomes. Can you see where I'm going? I don't think that just because some faces of the dice are the same, that each of the dice' facets are actually non-unique.

Villager number 2 is a still a villager with a value of 2, even if they are functionally the same as villager 1 and 3.

Also the reason that people see streaks of heads or tails more or less often is because there are less instances where Heads can land 10 Times in a row compared to other variations.

We flip a coin 10x.

10 heads, 0 tails: 1/1024 = 0.1%
9 heads, 1 tails: 10/1024 = 1.0%
8 heads, 2 tails: 45/1024 = 4.4%
7 heads, 3 tails: 120/1024 = 11.7%
6 heads, 4 tails: 210/1024 = 20.5%
5 heads, 5 tails: 252/1024 = 24.6%
4 heads, 6 tails: 210/1024 = 20.5%
3 heads, 7 tails: 120/1024 = 11.7%
2 heads, 8 tails: 45/1024 = 4.4%
1 heads, 9 tails: 10/1024 = 1.0%
0 heads, 10 tails: 1/1024 = 0.1%

Is this not making sense to anyone yet? It's because there are 252 Ways for combinations of heads and tails to equal a 5-5 Tally, it's just that in only one of those cases does 10 - 0 Appear.

Hence this is demonstrated in normal distributions all the time, and it commonly forms a bell that can be seen just by turning that table on its side.
over 9 years
Adrenaline, I've wanted to ask him but he is busy I assume.
over 9 years
Victoria has a very good sense of math and numbers. She just looks at them differently and that gives her a unique perspective. I don't expect her to be knowledgeable of statistical formulas and tests, as that is specialized. That's not something everyone would know.
over 9 years
this is assuming epicmafia is a black box that grew out of nature; the truth is you can just ask lucid how he does randomization
over 9 years
Victoria is very confused how math works in generall
over 9 years
Victoria, I think you are little confused on how the degree of freedom works. The number of degrees is dependent on the number of outcomes (PR, Maf, Cop, Blue) Therefore your df would equal 4, or, as we do it in the stat world (n-1), your df would equal 3. Also I just used .05 significance because that's the standard we use in stats.

Of course, you can do any test you would like but the results would still be similar.
over 9 years
The trick is in realizing that is is because you must have an average result of 50/50, that you cannot have many instances where HHHHHHHHHH Happened compared to HTHTHTHTHT.

And it is demonstrated beautifully, each and every single time that one uses that simulation, or any simulation to show the visual representation of placements with the law of averages. Those streaks happen by far, far less than any other circumstance in 1,000, 1,000,000 or even 1,000,000,000 attempts.

1 In a billion is expected to happen on average of one in one billion attempts, or it would not be a rule to declare it as one in a billion, in the first place.
over 9 years

Kellyn says

Very Interesting. Are you familiar with chi-square tests? They're used to see if anything's out of the ordinary. Also, I think you typed your data in wrong for slot 4, as I get 54 total, instead of 52. Using your data, I get:

Slot 1: p = .81
Slot 2: p = .22
Slot 3: p = .36
Slot 4: N/A
Slot 5: p = .07
Slot 6: p = .57

Anything above p = .05 is technically considered normal. Although it is very interesting to see Slot 5 have such a low value. Possible Mafia slot? Keep up the good work mate.


After looking, the degree of freedom you're using is for the assumption that we only have two possible outcomes (heads or tails). The total possible outcomes of all of these statistics combined is not 2. It is 823,543.

My degree of freedom is therefore 823,542.

I do not know how high my tolerance would be, given that the first chart I can find only has degrees of freedom up to 100.

https://www.easycalculation.com/statistics/chisquare-table.php

But even if my critical point was 0.005 On 100 (0.5%), I still land well within the point where the null hypothesis is not rejected. The issue is that it is assumed by most that if you flip a coin two times there's only two possible outcomes.

Unfortunately reality states there is 4. (HH, HT, TH, TT).
deletedover 9 years
this should be our thread now
deletedover 9 years
whats up ling
over 9 years
u look qt today
deletedover 9 years
nice does anyone watch the vampire diaries
deletedover 9 years

Floor says


Devante says

Can u both shut up


Can you stop posting


Added.
deletedover 9 years
Woah there's a whole lot of wrong in here.
over 9 years
Nothing else can be either. A truly fair coin for example would undermine causality itself to retain fairness in gravity wells. All the power of a supermassive blackhole would be meaningless, for the sake of keeping randomness.

That doesn't happen.

The universe follows laws, it must, for people to even be cognizant of them. We see that rare events remain rare, as in the case of flipping coins in long chains, those events where they land in a series only happen occasionally.

Yet while people observe these occurrences happen infrequently compared to the more probable ones, everyone seems to close their eyes and open their mouths when saying "it fiddy-fiddy!"
over 9 years
also, your conclusion was not the conclusion i was looking for, therefore it's irrelevant. sorry
over 9 years

ViktorEldor says

Choosing the option which gives the highest chances of victory comes before the social aspect of Mafia. You could argue that people who want to choose options which hurt the town are being anti-town, and therefore scum.

Those decisions are based on objective observations, social skills come later, and are completely political in nature.


not always true. specific example was 5 way - cop/cop/blue/nilla/gf. only alive report was inno on a blue claim. miller had been lynched, so they were potentially at ML, and the inno was potentially clear, so lynching at 5 way for nilla was "optimal" since hitting gf would clear the inno. but the inno was gf, and this was obvious, but the report was stoppibg the lynch, and the other two was a tough lynch. socials came before maths, the inno gf was lynched and the nilla was found via report.

Devante says

it's a random generator that determines your role, so there is no pattern, it's like rolling a dice


computers cant be truly random. thats the point
over 9 years

Kellyn says

Very Interesting. Are you familiar with chi-square tests? They're used to see if anything's out of the ordinary. Also, I think you typed your data in wrong for slot 4, as I get 54 total, instead of 52.


I'm not familiar, no. I'm probably going to be over the next week. Here's an updated count (I'm not surprised that there are 1-2 That are out of place, hence the recounts and back-ups).

I recorded a few samples wrong, but thankfully I saved them all for rechecking.



57 Games worth. It's getting kinda jagged. This is also with corrections (there were a few missing blue, and a few missing power roles).