Make a better, clearer rules page20

sleepytobito3mon 12d

The rules page is outdated and not clear enough to me. I also think it should be explicitly linked when someone gets a note or vio to just so they can check. Examples of how it's not clear is:

GRS - "Suiciding or intentionally vegging for any game related reason." It doesn't specify that vegging/suiciding = leaving game early. I wouldn't be able to deduce that until I'd played for a bit. Had one of these vios cause I didn't know how the timer worked and as my maf partner kept resetting it to hurl abuse at me, I left. So make it clearer please.

OGI - "Using out-of-game tools or processes that could potentially influence the outcome of an ongoing game, including, but not limited to: posting on profiles, lobbies, or the forums revealing game-related information, clearly stated meta posted on profile, whether followed or not, reporting a player for a game in progress, using third party functions or sites to make in-game decisions, bribes or threats (such as karma, kudos, breaking a rule, reporting), and pregame pact. Saying someone is game throwing or grudge lynching you in order to influence the votes. Pretending to cheat as a reaction test or to influence the game also falls under OGI." Can we rename this? Saying someone's grudgeing you or "game throwing by voting you" shouldn't count as outside of game influence, it's in game influence if anything. If something only references things in game then why is it OUTSIDE of game influence. Makes 0 sense.

Harassment - "Making repeated/severe personal attacks toward or slandering another Epicmafia user when the user has asked the harasser to stop. If filing on behalf of another user, one must show the consent of the harassed person." What counts? When is it severe enough? Gimme a clear limit because the amount I see "not severe enough to warrant a vio" is getting tiring.

I'm sure there's more but I'm lazy. Also please add instructions on how to appeal on a person's first vio. That'd help so much.

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deletedJul 12, 2020!
+3
i can come back to this later with thoughts if i remember, but the whole idea of leaving a game when someone is harassing you being considered "grs" deserves a serious overhaul. telling someone to wait it out until the game ends (something i was told when i was literally being harassed about a personal circumstance for twenty minutes in a game) and then report is effectively telling them that they have to stay and endure a situation that could be sincerely harmful or detrimental to their mental health. (for the mafia purists, it also severely compromises at least one player's ability to effectively play the game, which benefits no one.) at that point, it's not "game related" - it pertains directly to antagonism that, while occurring IN the game, is usually rooted in something external.
ZoveaJul 12, 2020
-1
yeasayer
but the whole idea of leaving a game when someone is harassing you being considered "grs" deserves a serious overhaul.
Because the professional victims on this site need more tools.
deletedJul 12, 2020
+1
speaking of professional victimhood, aren't you the same person who tried to get somebody a vio for calling you a monkey? now is probably not the time to start picking and choosing what people are allowed to be upset by or find stressful, especially in the context of a website that people use as a hobby.
deletedJul 12, 2020
you can mock and demean the people on this website who are sensitive by your standards, but the same things that they're arguing to have overhauled or reconsidered will ultimately benefit you if there's any sincerity to you being "upset" that those terms still get used against you, so i'd sit this one out. there'll be another thread you can play devil's advocate in soon enough, i'm sure.
ZoveaJul 12, 2020
You have to be a special type of stupid to argue that it's okay to be bigoted/racist towards someone you don't like, while in the same thread trying to argue that the rules are outdated. Using racist insults (or advocating for their use) is a weak minded approach that's not allowed for a reason.

Any idiot that takes a couple of seconds to predict the outcome of a suggested proposal would recognize that allowing people to leave games under the guise of "I feel harassed" would only be abused. That's not playing devil's advocate, it's using common sense, as someone that's been on this site for near a decade should realize. I guess it's good to know that my presence makes you want to be racist towards me for calling out your stupidity.
deletedJul 12, 2020
Zovea
I guess it's good to know that my presence makes you want to be racist towards me for calling out your stupidity.
Zovea
racist towards me for calling out your stupidity
Zovea
racist towards me
hope you stretched before that reach, don't feel charitable enough to dignify it with a response but might circle back later if i get bored or something.
deletedJul 12, 2020
+3
it would be nice if the rules page specified that you'd get stuck with a 6 month eye sore harassment violation for saying "anime is for pedophiles" in a game with sevenseas' secret vio fishing alt
sleepytobitoJul 12, 2020
Alex
it would be nice if the rules page specified that you'd get stuck with a 6 month eye sore harassment violation for saying "anime is for pedophiles" in a game with sevenseas' secret vio fishing alt
...did...did that happen?
deletedJul 12, 2020
sleepytobito
Alex
it would be nice if the rules page specified that you'd get stuck with a 6 month eye sore harassment violation for saying "anime is for pedophiles" in a game with sevenseas' secret vio fishing alt
...did...did that happen?
https://epicmafia.com/report/286262
ClairJul 12, 2020
@Sevenseas well? whats your response?
ZoveaJul 12, 2020
Hey you remember that time I used a racist slur towards you and you reported me for it? Sure would be funny if someone did that again because you're posting in this thread!
deletedJul 13, 2020
Zovea
Hey you remember that time I used a racist slur towards you and you reported me for it? Sure would be funny if someone did that again because you're posting in this thread!
don't recall but please, PLEASE report me if this is directed at me. i'm begging you.
SkathiJul 13, 2020
I definitely agree with your points on the GRS description, I'd never actually thought about it that way before, and I think it'd be a good change.

Saying someone is GTing by voting you is using an outside of game process (reporting) in order to influence their/others votes. At least, that was always my understanding of it.

Trying to quantify harassment is very much like asking how long a piece of string is. You can harass someone with serious slander, even before being asked to stop. You can harass someone without using any slurs. I've tried to type out how I would define harassment, but even doing so I'm not covering it all. So yes, if we could define a limit that would be great, but I doubt we'd be able to cover it all clearly.
pranay7744Jul 13, 2020
You can easily provide clarifications for game related vios if not for community vios.

Community vios we dont need clarification. We already know how it is applied.

>Is the person being harassed part of mod team or their circle of friends? If yes then give vio if they feel harassed for being called and idiot or even if someone just implies something. If no, then give warning with verdict as "not severe enough, stay away from each other"

>Is the person reported for harassment/hc/spamming part of mod team or their friend circle? If yes then give note or no vio with verdict as "you know better than to do this, stay away from each other, since you don't have history in the last 24 hours, we will note this" . If no, then give a vio and go and read all their games to give more vios so you can ban them.

>If the report is appealed for double standards, sustain with verdict "the mod that handled both reports are different. We do not believe in consistency when applying rules. How else will we ban people we hate and let our friends cheat and harass genuine users. We are good people so we deserve to have fun the way we want and breaking rules sometimes is harmless"
pranay7744Jul 13, 2020
+12
I rather think that the rule page needs only one line and nothing else "mod discretion, fuk you"
blacksnakemoanJul 13, 2020
pranay7744
I rather think that the rule page needs only one line and nothing else "mod discretion, fuk you"
make him a mod
blacksnakemoanJul 13, 2020
yeasayer
but the whole idea of leaving a game when someone is harassing you being considered "grs" deserves a serious overhaul. telling someone to wait it out until the game ends (something i was told when i was literally being harassed about a personal circumstance for twenty minutes in a game) and then report is effectively telling them that they have to stay and endure a situation that could be sincerely harmful or detrimental to their mental health.
at risk of being told off for only responding to one part of this post i agree with the GRS rule needing to be changed here.

the only problem is there's a lot of stuff that doesn't reach harassment levels which people report for.
HugoJul 13, 2020
In my personal opinion, harassment should only be moderated when someone asks to stop. Because then it makes it objective. You can have consistency. One passing comment should not be a vio. This is internet. But this site has grown into a direction that will never consider this.
SkathiJul 13, 2020
I'm sorry you feel that way pranay. If there is anything I can do to help, you know how to reach me.

I will say I believe some things are instant harassment vios regardless (excessive slander etc), but I do agree that asking someone to stop should be a key first stage.
Giga13Jul 13, 2020
The GRS suggestion is a good suggestion
harassment against racists should be fine, unban shmeur