On Community53

tigermom4mon 9d
+8

I wrote this based on the ideas I saw posted in d1pshit's goodbye thread which I thought were missing the mark. There's three false assumptions I noticed people make, the first two relating to the (imo dangerous) way people approach internet communities and the third one relating to d1pshit herself (though applicable to any troll on here).

The first assumption: that the presence of people like d1pshit is inherently bad for an online community. How do we define what is bad for a community as a whole, and how do we define what's bad for its individual members? Which one prevails?

I don't want to hear about how online communities are comparable to real life in any way (d1pshit's case being a great example of how things would have been handled differently irl, from all sides involved). I don't want to outright say this but I will: most of us came here because we were introverted, socially-anxious, depressed, had less than perfect rl social lives, etc. (this excluding people who only play the games and don't involve themselves in sandbox drama). Now I'm sure that amongst these people there's some who'd just like to have a nice community, and I truly hope you find those people who are looking for the same. But for the rest of us (and this now includes the people who just play the games), EM seems to be something you do only when you're too tired/bored/have some free time/etc. to do stuff in real life.

Knowing this it does not surprise me that in the many years I've been here there was never truly a time when people were investing in the community in a building rather than a destructive fashion. In other words, if, in a specific period in time, you're in the right place mentally to do something (creative/extrinsic) with your life, you're more likely to take up gardening than invest time in bettering a virtual community (god bless the mod team and whoever's hosting that singing competition but I couldn't. I say this as someone who has in the past attempted to make the community nice by hosting things and wanted to contribute to the community/better it multiple times.From an adult perspective it's just much much better to do things in real life). It's just more tangible. And if someone doesn't have the mental energy, it's most likely that they come here to just f*ck around. Which explains why, throughout all the time I've been here, there has never been a time when the community was popular + harmonious.

You see, it's not prosperity that brings about drama. It's drama that causes prosperity. It'd be interesting to see the figures and I won't attempt to claim this is factual truth, but ever since d1pshit came back to EM the community has been booming. Negativity drives engagement; even if you personally felt stressed because of her presence, your engagement with her comments increased the overall activity of the website. Does this mean we should ignore individual people's suffering over a toxic community purely because it makes the community popular? No!. But it brings us to the second assumption:

That online communities are comparable to rl communities and inherently worthy of our efforts and time. Actually, I've already spoken about this and there isn't much new to say (all the points are intermingled in the text. It's okay). I honestly just wanted to draw attention to this:

[d1pshit on her presence on EM] "I love drama. I really do. It's fun. But it's also consuming and takes away resources from much less questionable pursuits."

Because I think it's worth noting that any online community can be extremely addictive. I remember briefly visiting EM in the morning, evening and at night, and every single time I'd see d1pshit hosting games or arguing with people on the lobby wall . It seemed extremely unhealthy, which is why regardless of any political drama I'm very happy she decided to take a break and can only hope she won't fill that time up with some other social media. But I think it's worth mentioning because it applies to all of us, both the people who come here to find community and those who come here when they're too exhausted to do something else. EM is not your family. It's a time vortex. A benign one, in that there aren't measures in place to keep you coming back, but a time vortex nonetheless (just because someone isn't profiting off of you doesn't mean you aren't wasting time). If you have made friends here, stick to them. But don't mistake the sum total of sandbox for your allotment garden community whose sanctity you need to protect. It's not that and never should be. Sure, the community isn't THAT big. But it's a lot more than you can ever realistically try to unite under some abstract purpose. School spirit was a sham, so why are we trying to emulate that with Sandbox? If my high school class (a never-changing set of 25 people) managed to form into 4 inner circles within that setting, how can we expect cliques not to come about in a community as large as this? They should be celebrated. That said, nobody should gang up on anyone, but in the end I think retiring the idea of community on a Sandbox level would do us good, as well as taking care to ensure we aren't investing too much time in a place that in the end doesn't matter and never will. I understand the irony of taking the time to write this out, but I think I'm pretty aware of EM's relation to my real life and know to control myself by now. I can only hope the others know to do the same.

We've finally arrived at the most important point. Three: the assumption that d1pshit was either a horrible person, OR a helpless victim of The Circlejerk's ire. The truth is d1pshit was a troll. I'm sure she was aware of the pointless nature of internet arguments (perhaps in a time-consuming rather than an politically fruitless kind of way), while still believing every word she argued. Do you know that rush of dopamine you get in a debate? I'm confident that's what drove the fun for her (regardless of how uncomfortable the blowback she would receive). Unfortunately for us and for her, it ended up taking a significantly large proportion of her time and impacting the people who were more susceptible to it/more willing to entertain her (though I'd be surprised if they didn't get their own adrenaline from engaging in the whole affair. Anger brings about adrenaline).

Anyway I don't think there's much else to say. If some (extremely) charismatic dogooder decides to take matters into their own hands now that the d1pshit's departure has left an opening in the social hierarchy, they might actually turn things around here and shift it from its toxic ways...

But I highly doubt that (just as I doubt that any comments made by either party ever ran the risk of paving way for extremism in the community any more than their subsequent rehashing did to destroy toxicity). Just play the game; don't engage the trolls, stick to your friends, and, most importantly, plant some (real life) seeds.

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GyroGearlooseMay 23, 2020
PissProblems
I thought this was about the tv show community at first and then it wasn't and i'm sad now.

maybe we should try to be more like the tv show community.
ok abed kinnie
kauzu1May 23, 2020
+3
This all just seems....wrong. Like TL;DR: "Drama and community wars are good for the site because they increase activity." The thing is, something I've noticed is that tiger's main theory is wrong. Forum posts may have went up, wall comments went up a ton, but game numbers and users did not. In fact I know a few people who left the site because of this nonsense,I can't name a single one who joined because of it.

I regularly play some pretty dead MMOs and something they taught me is that in order to have fun you don't need a lot of activity, just people who genuinely enjoy the game enough to keep some activity. The forums and wall don't keep the site alive, the games do. If people just wanted to chat they'd use discord. Rarely do I see real discussions in games it's just a way to relax and kinda unwind. That's why I've taken to forum posting to beg people to react in a healthier or more realistic way on both sides.

I went to d1p offsite and said "You know this isnt helping things and just stressing you out" and they said "I know but it's fun". This is /not/ healthy for the life of the site.

Basic points everyone should agree with: Games are what keeps the site going.Anything that causes large numbers of kicks to happen or people to avoid each other is bad for games. Unnecessary drama or altercations should be avoided.
coolkidrox123May 23, 2020
+4
tldr pls . i see big wall of text and i run
SirAmelioMay 23, 2020
+2
yall rly allowed d1pshit to be a martyr for the anti-circlejerk ppl
emsychumMay 23, 2020
tldr can we shut the hell up about d1p already
neruMay 23, 2020
+3
where is the line between circlejerk and group of friends drawn
USAMay 23, 2020
+2
neru
where is the line between circlejerk and group of friends drawn
When a forum link is posted in a discord chat and then 4-5 people from that chat post one after the other to push the same opinion, that's when it's a circlejerk. Same goes for lobby wall posts.

When you casually play games with your friends, that's when it's just a group of friends.
himaMay 23, 2020
USA
neru
where is the line between circlejerk and group of friends drawn
When a forum link is posted in a discord chat and then 4-5 people from that chat post one after the other to push the same opinion, that's when it's a circlejerk. Same goes for lobby wall posts.

When you casually play games with your friends, that's when it's just a group of friends.
so... friends cant have the same opinion or talk about anything other than video games? lmao ok allen
USAMay 23, 2020
hima
USA
neru
where is the line between circlejerk and group of friends drawn
When a forum link is posted in a discord chat and then 4-5 people from that chat post one after the other to push the same opinion, that's when it's a circlejerk. Same goes for lobby wall posts.

When you casually play games with your friends, that's when it's just a group of friends.
so... friends cant have the same opinion or talk about anything other than video games? lmao ok allen
I don't see where I said that, Anya.
himaMay 23, 2020!
USA
hima
USA
When a forum link is posted in a discord chat and then 4-5 people from that chat post one after the other to push the same opinion, that's when it's a circlejerk. Same goes for lobby wall posts.

When you casually play games with your friends, that's when it's just a group of friends.
so... friends cant have the same opinion or talk about anything other than video games? lmao ok allen
I don't see where I said that, Anya.
by ur logic, if i link a post to my friends that ive stated an opinion on, and they agree with my opinion/decide to reply to the same post with additional contributions not connected to my comment, thats circlejerking instead of. u know. the natural dissemination of and contribution to the message of that post lmao
DkKobaMay 23, 2020
USA
neru
where is the line between circlejerk and group of friends drawn
When a forum link is posted in a discord chat and then 4-5 people from that chat post one after the other to push the same opinion, that's when it's a circlejerk. Same goes for lobby wall posts.

When you casually play games with your friends, that's when it's just a group of friends.
this sounds familiar to me
USAMay 23, 2020
hima
USA
hima
USA
When a forum link is posted in a discord chat and then 4-5 people from that chat post one after the other to push the same opinion, that's when it's a circlejerk. Same goes for lobby wall posts.

When you casually play games with your friends, that's when it's just a group of friends.
so... friends cant have the same opinion or talk about anything other than video games? lmao ok allen
I don't see where I said that, Anya.
by ur logic, if i link a post to my friends that ive stated an opinion on, and they agree with my opinion/decide to reply to the same post with additional contributions not connected to my comment, thats circlejerking instead of. u know. the natural dissemination of and contribution to the message of that post lmao
Yeah, that sounds like circlejerking to me. How would you define it?
himaMay 23, 2020
USA
hima
by ur logic, if i link a post to my friends that ive stated an opinion on, and they agree with my opinion/decide to reply to the same post with additional contributions not connected to my comment, thats circlejerking instead of. u know. the natural dissemination of and contribution to the message of that post lmao
Yeah, that sounds like circlejerking to me. How would you define it?
being exclusionary and dismissive of others, primarily. thats what the name implies
arials92May 23, 2020
PissProblems
I thought this was about the tv show community at first and then it wasn't and i'm sad now.

maybe we should try to be more like the tv show community.
Reunite on Zoom for a call together? Hmmm.
USAMay 23, 2020
hima
USA
hima
by ur logic, if i link a post to my friends that ive stated an opinion on, and they agree with my opinion/decide to reply to the same post with additional contributions not connected to my comment, thats circlejerking instead of. u know. the natural dissemination of and contribution to the message of that post lmao
Yeah, that sounds like circlejerking to me. How would you define it?
being exclusionary and dismissive of others, primarily. thats what the name implies
Ok I agree. But if this group of people decide to post one after the other to belittle other users or dismiss other users by disagreeing with their opinions, would you consider that circlejerking?
USAMay 23, 2020
DkKoba
USA
neru
where is the line between circlejerk and group of friends drawn
When a forum link is posted in a discord chat and then 4-5 people from that chat post one after the other to push the same opinion, that's when it's a circlejerk. Same goes for lobby wall posts.

When you casually play games with your friends, that's when it's just a group of friends.
this sounds familiar to me
Care to share?
coolkidrox123May 23, 2020
neru
where is the line between circlejerk and group of friends drawn
when theres a game and you kill the one you dont know n1 because you wanna play with your friends but your friends rejoin and play with you every game and you keep voting/killing/outing the player you dont recognise and the newbie gets frustrated and just goes to main which is toxic and yells at you for the smallest thing so they just quit.
not talking about no avis just in general.
neruMay 23, 2020
+7
damn y'all don't n1 your friends on sight?
emsychumMay 23, 2020
damn, y'all have friends?
coolkidrox123May 24, 2020
what? lol. you guys dont hire people to act as your friends? missing out its great.