Sorta goodbye thread?198

deleted4mon 10d

So, I've been kinda dodging this for a while - it's been in the cards for months, now, but I've continued to stay here regardless, because, as I'm sure everybody here knows, I love drama. I really do. It's fun. But it's also consuming and takes away resources from much less questionable pursuits.

The fact of the matter is that sandbox is exhausting. I'm glad that we're at where we are now, compared to sandbox (and EM as a whole) when it was filled with 4channers and the like, but frankly, half the userbase acts like teenagers on tumblr who've just found out that they're capable of forming opinions. And that's exhausting.

It's exhausting being hounded obsessively by people who hate you. It's exhausting arguing with bigots who spontaneously decide they care about social justice whenever they engage with you. It's exhausting arguing with people who expect earnest responses to their bad faith strawmen. It's exhausting having to avoid games with users who harass you, but everybody else is fine with. It's exhausting having straight up bigotry thrown at you, and the people so concerned with your supposed problematic behavior giving it a pass, or even worse, DEFENDING it. It's frankly just exhausting, period, and honestly, this rant in and of itself is overly self-indulgent.

That's not to say there aren't users here that I like - in fact, there's quite a lot of you, and I appreciate you all dearly. Despite the constant drama and "discourse" here (again, a euphemism), there've been people who stuck by me, and that's something I value. Hopefully, y'all can salvage this hellsite and turn it into something meaningful.

Anyway, I don't really know what I'm doing yet , but I intend to scale back the time I spend on EM and dedicate it towards more meaningful, or at least, less irritating endeavors. I might come back to play minigames and such from time to time, and I'll still be active in Crackbox (https://discord.gg/WkmYJ4H if you want to keep up with me there). But either way, I'm hoping to disengage from all... this.

I probably should have done this a while ago, honestly. The fact of the matter is, when you stay in toxic environments long enough, you find yourself becoming toxic in response, like it or not. Sometimes, the situation is just unsalvageable, and all you can do - for yourself, and for others, is walk away. So that's what I intend to do.

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joqizaMay 26, 2020
+4
I don't think Nimau ever said we should have been nice to d1pshit, like she herself called her "abrasive, reactionary, hyperbolic, hypocritical, and rude" in this very thread. I think Nimau was just saying hateful views aren't justified just because they're directed towards someone who is themself hateful.

I didn't know a lot of this stuff about d1pshit and reading through the thread it's pretty clear that no one, myself included, should've ever given her the time of day. She was extremely deserving of a lot of the criticism she received. Still, stuff like transphobia is never acceptable, the action isn't justified by the target.

I understand that Nimau was making sort of veiled accusations and when you read stuff like that it's natural to wonder if you yourself are being accused of something. But I think just based on how specific Nimau was in the behaviors she was describing she's talking about certain individuals, and if you don't know who she's talking about it's like, probably not you? Like, if you were someone who called out d1pshit that doesn't automatically mean Nimau was talking about you, I'm pretty sure... if you never made a transphobic comment then you shouldn't feel accused. It was a "you know who you are" sort of thing.

I really didn't want to post this in the thread because there's so much history and context here that I'm missing and the last thing I want to do is get my dumb clueless a$$ involved but it's just upsetting me because I'm reading people arguing and it feels like people are taking turns espousing the same fundamental views but are somehow also accusing each other of not holding these views. Like either there is some major subtext I'm missing or everyone is just arguing about something they agree on, which is that hateful and bigoted comments are never okay, no matter what.
aquariusMay 26, 2020
How many times do I have to say that no one is being transphobic towards her in this thread and just because she's trans doesn't excuse any of her behavior or make any criticism of her transphobic/queerphobic

This is honestly a non-issue when it comes to her racist and sexual remarks and the fact that this is becoming such a big part of the thread detracts from everything being said on the racism front
NimauMay 26, 2020
+2
I told people to respect everyone and that it's gross that people who actively bully others and exhibit disgusting behaviour themselves are also the ones who treat bappho like she is the single scourge of this community, but go off. Keep telling me things I said instead of actually reading what I said.

At no point did I excuse or defend her behaviour. I didn't make a single comment about anything racist she has said or done and in fact openly condemned her behaviour but it's cooler to use buzzwords and act like you're morally superior instead of accepting that some of your friends might be shitt—É people.
aquariusMay 26, 2020
+1
Which of my friends are people? The ones she sexually harassed or the ones she harassed for being black?
aquariusMay 26, 2020
Sh*tty people.
NimauMay 26, 2020
+1
You're literally preemptively justifying people's hypothetical indiscretions and don't see how that's a twisted side to be on.
aquariusMay 26, 2020
+2
Hey why don't you answer this question: why do racists and sexual harassers deserve respect?
BlaveMay 26, 2020
deleted
NimauMay 26, 2020
+2
Because every person deserves basic human respect. And as I've stated repeatedly the problematic users here are far from limited to only their interactions with bappho.

Why do abusers, bullies, transphobes, and the like deserve respect? Outside of you not liking ONE of the people some of them have chosen to target why are you so adamant about defending this behaviour?
shoukoMay 26, 2020
+2
lol you just said racists and sexual harassers deserve respect, i think i'm done here

i hope you eventually realize what a clown you've become
NimauMay 26, 2020
+1
Yeah I mean I'm never going to take the side of defending bigotry and abuse so you'll be waiting a long time.
maxMay 26, 2020
+1
"i dont side with bigots but they do deserve respect"
USAMay 26, 2020
If d1p had such a problem with racism and sexual harassment, why wasn't d1p banned?
neruMay 26, 2020
+1
because not all of it was reported for whatever reason
NimauMay 26, 2020
+1
They deserve to be called out and held accountable for their actions and banned. That does not give every other user in this community a free pass to engage in their own bigotry at their or anyone else's expense.
shoukoMay 26, 2020
+1
neru
because not all of it was reported for whatever reason
this plus quite a bit of it was off site on discord which isnt moderated except in extreme cases and idk if the mods would consider this extreme
himaMay 26, 2020
USA
If d1p had such a problem with racism and sexual harassment, why wasn't d1p banned?
she did get reported and a lot of times mods just denied it. dzke linked a report appeal earlier where bappho said something incredibly sexual and didnt get banned initially even though it was clearly x-rated, so dzke had to appeal and included similar examples until the mod team finally agreed to flip to a vio

idk if u remember but when i was a mod i used to talk a lot abt the in-fighting with the mod teams and how hard it was to get community related vios bc so many mods would rather look the other way than deal with issues. that has never stopped being a problem and its probably even worse now given who our admins are
shoukoMay 26, 2020
+2
right now there's also no mods from sandbox and no community mods (these often are the same people). this means community vios often get buried underneath game related vios

for instance when i modded i specifically was the community mod who handled most community related reports and also generally handled the forums and community relations. now no one is doing that
USAMay 26, 2020
So basically mods are sods and people take justice into their own hands
shoukoMay 26, 2020
+2
USA
So basically mods are sods and people take justice into their own hands
yeah pretty much, just look at all the pedo threads in complaints for example. lots of pedos would not have been banned had the community not made an absolute riot out of it