Zero Tolerance54

Giga1319d 9h

https://epicmafia.com/report/278408

I feel strongly about this so I'm making a thread.

GovernorSarahPalin was given a Harassment (2nd) violation for telling me to "drink poison" "or die", not for telling SteelixMega to kill themselves. If she didn't say that to SteelixMega, I wouldn't have even filed the report. I just used what she said to me as evidence to show that GovernorSarahPalin was saying some really awful things to people.

Zero tolerance means zero tolerance, why the hell should it matter if the person the comments are directed at reported it or not? That's not zero tolerance!!! Whenever any moderator sees it the appropriate action should be taken regardless of who it was directed at.

IMO, use context and determine if someone is being hateful with it and give the violation with moderator discretion.

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alexandra8d 20m
+1
a straight person saying "yeah me and my other straight friend call each other [the f slur] all the time but it's ok cos we're both fine with it and it's just banter lolz" is equivalent to saying it's okay to call each people the r word if ur both ok with it. it's an ableist slur. it doesn't stop being one when people use it among friends.
mandevian7d 23h
So it doesn't have to be hateful? Close friends say things to each other which are none of our business. This is a game played between friends. A game of lies and deception. In an ideal world there should be no moderation on the language used. Since it is there, at least it should be moderated with context. This is not a school or classroom or a courtroom. This is a game room. Outside the game you can moderate language. Inside the game it should be an open field. We should let players fight it out.

This is what I believe should be changed about the rule.

However, I respect the rule since it is there and I will follow it and everyone should follow it.

When the rule wasn't so strict, I never reported anyone for the kind of language they used. I started reporting only after the rule was applied on me.

I am a believer of zero moderation on language inside the game. But if the rule is there, I will follow it. I will try and convince people to change the rule. Until then I shall follow it.

Secondly, as per rule, the language should be hateful for it to be a violation of the rules. Therefore, if it is a dialogue between friends who don't mind each other, we have no business moderating it.
alexandra7d 22h!
+1
it doesn't matter who it's between

slurs are hurtful

a gay person sitting there and listening to straight people call each other the f-slur? hurtful. someone that's intellectually and/or developmentally disabled sitting there and listening to people call each other the r word? hurtful.

words have power no matter who it's directed at.

if you want to use slurs in your personal, private conversations, literally no one can stop you. it's different when you're in an environment with other people. epicmafia dot com games are not personal/private messages and the things you say can hurt people even if it's not aimed at them.
mandevian7d 19h
You sound angry. I thought we were just sharing our thoughts. Let's have a healthy debate. Without losing our minds.
mandevian7d 19h
On to the debate.

1- slurs are hurtful to whom?

2- if someone mentions existence of a slur, does it automatically become hurtful to people it is not directed to?

3- we are supposed to empower people. Not weaken them. How do you empower people? By not acknowledging them? Intellectual and developmental status is a spectrum. Literally everyone falls somewhere on that spectrum. Treat people with respect by playing to the best of your abilities. The game of epic mafia has an aspect which we often ignore. The emotional aspect. Sometimes you have to beat people on an emotional level. If you are strong, you will win. If you treat people as handicapped then you are disrespectful to them.
mandevian7d 19h
4- I consider the table of epicmafia game to be a standalone game table. Where people sort it out themselves. If we over moderate the game, the fun and spark is reduced. Mind you, it will not always be fun for all players. In every competitive game in the universe, someone is sad about the game. It is part of the game. Here are two aspects which I want to put forward.

One- Not being intentionally hurtful to people as per the current rules. I argue that if I am saying a word that is not directed to hurt anyone, then anyone claiming to be offended should shove it up their rear.

Two- Since above rule is there, I will respect it and follow it. My second argument is to discuss whether this rule can be removed. For that I have given some arguments. I may be wrong. But those are my thoughts. If people decide against it, then fine. I argue that inside the game, we should not moderate how people treat each other. Because we are playing make believe in the game. Hurting people to win is a strategy. Also, you do not know what might hurt someone. Sometimes people may be using absolutely fine words which are allowed, but someone might still be hurt. Just by not being acknowledged. This is another reason I argue that hurting people should not be moderated.

On the other hand, harassment has to be moderated. This is when people harass people regardless of the game. They take it outside the game. Sometimes they harass inside the game without any game related motive. This can be easily moderated and should be moderated.
wink7d 16h!
mandevian
1- slurs are hurtful to whom?
Whoever they are directed towards. (N word refers to people of color, R word refers to people with disabilities, etc)

mandevian
2- if someone mentions existence of a slur, does it automatically become hurtful to people it is not directed to?
Acknowledging the existence of a slur and purposefully using it are two different things. Context matters.

mandevian
3- we are supposed to empower people. Not weaken them. How do you empower people? By not acknowledging them? Intellectual and developmental status is a spectrum. Literally everyone falls somewhere on that spectrum. Treat people with respect by playing to the best of your abilities. The game of epic mafia has an aspect which we often ignore. The emotional aspect. Sometimes you have to beat people on an emotional level. If you are strong, you will win. If you treat people as handicapped then you are disrespectful to them.
You can acknowledge and empower people without using slurs that have been historically used to separate and dehumanize groups of people
libertarians i swear to god
mandevian7d 15h
So it has to be directed towards someone, right? That is what I said. Tomorrow if I direct it to you, and you do not mind, should the mods mind? Or other people who the slur is offensive?

You agree with me that context matters.

My third point is entirely different. Here I am saying that I believe we should allow people to hurt others emotionally in a game. Just my view. Since it is against the rules, I shall follow the rule unless it is changed.
Citadel7d 15h
+2
I believe wink meant they are hurtful to the people or groups (usually marginalized) they refer to, not the person one directs the slur towards.

Either ways, even though I could be wrong about this, but to my knowledge, there was no point in EM's history where moderators/admins decided that slurs should be treated with absolutely no tolerance on the website. The speech filter and the strict rules on slurs were both implemented by the site owner himself, because the existence of slurs on the website hurt the adsense revenue. Which (if I am correct, but I believe I am) makes the whole argument somewhat obsolete.

And to clarify, I am not denying nor confirming if and how slurs are hurtful to anyone, i'm in no position to know any of it for a fact, merely stating what I believe to be facts, relevant to the topic.
alexandra7d 11h
i’m not mad, pranay, sorry if i gave that impression. just the way i talk i guess?

slurs are hurtful to the marginalized groups that they’ve been historically used against

they don’t need to be used in a hateful context to hurt

using them at all is minimizing the fact that those words are used in a hateful context every single day

if straight people are calling each other the f slur because one of them does something “weak” or “feminine”, they’re 1) associating that word with qualities they perceive as negative and 2) normalizing using that word in everyday conversation. same goes for the r word. it’s harmful even if it’s not as obviously harmful as being blatantly hateful.

just because you wouldn’t walk up to someone with down syndrome and call them the r word doesn’t mean you’re any better by using it in a joking context. the word still keeps its meaning.

in addition, mafia is a game. it’s not psychological warfare and no one needs to “hurt” each other for strategy. there’s a difference between appealing to emotion and attempting to hurt someone to win a game, and i would argue anyone that thinks it’s okay to do the latter has an unhealthy relationship with mafia and would be better off without it and probably in therapy tbh

i’m half asleep so sorry if that sounds scattered
I agree. There is a thin line between appealing to emotions and actually hurting. Rather there is no difference. One has to sound sincere in their emotional attacks. I am just sad that it was a part of the game and now it isn't. I guess I'd take some vios once in a while if I really have to resort to it. I'd report myself if I break the rule. I am totally against using the slurs in the forums and other pages outside the game for reasons citadel cited. In the game we have to be ourselves or pretend to be. I don't mind hurting people emotionally in a game that is a test of intellectual and emotional abilities. But I respect the rules and everyone should.
mylo6d 13h
when did alexandra become a SJW
We won this lamd fair and square. Happy Thanksgiving