The Sandbox Setup70

sl0nderman47mon 3d
+13

It's really sad that main has better setup diversity. Sure they may play Fancy Pants too much, but at least their competitive setups rotate and new things are coming into play every now and again. When I was testing out some new setups with the Role Patrol group, we were overlooked in sandbox but games filled in minutes in Main.

Closed roles didn't always exist. It was suggested back in 2011. When I joined in 2012, sandbox still wasn't completely dominated with closed roles games. Sandbox was just the lobby you could play for fun, instead of the serious attitude in Training or Competitive (for you newbies, training became Main lobby and the dedicated competitive lobby died off). When I started playing and I was my turn to host, I would hand make a setup each time, trying to put a little balance in it as I went. Maybe the Sandbox Setup is so popular out of laziness. It's right there, stickied, and ready to go and you know people will join it at this point so might as well, right?

Did you know there are over 1,200,000 setups saved? Sure most of them will be crap and duplicates, but even out of half of them Sandbox will be playing the same old closed roles one (with the occasional update with new roles, of course).

This is the part of the post when I do a counter point. "But sl0nderman," you are saying to yourself, "the beauty of closed roles is that you get a semi-unique setup each time you host!" Well this is where Sandbox gets part of it's reputation of "not trying." Yes, part of that is the lack of rules, but the other part is that there is less strategy in a closed roles setup than in normal ones. There's little to no way of knowing what roles are in play for the average player in the Sandbox Setup, which in turn causes people to not think about actions as much. Say you went to gun you friend but they were actually a granny and you died. Say everyone just automatically NL'd on the first day but there was an interrogator in play and he just killed the doctor. You can't fault the players for this, there's no way to play around literally every role in the game.

Maybe I've been around too long (which is silly because I've not even close to one of the oldest users on the site), but don't you get bored, Sandbox? Obviously there are those of you who are so done with games that you've complete given up and just sit around in the chat.

I invite everyone who is willing to play games to do a very simple thing. Host a different setup and try something new. There are literally a million to choose from. You'll probably start having more fun that you realize.

EDIT: SHUFFLING THE NUMBER OF PLAYERS AROUND IS FAKE DIVERSITY

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sl0ndermanDec 8, 2016
+1
I agree very much with what you said, Plissken. Even the closed roles "uniqueness" has fallen into routine. If there's no reports, people endlessly NL until the town loses. Otherwise, it's just meaningless bandwagons. It's very sad that people seem to think that "not trying" in sandbox equates to do literally nothing besides vote in games.
deletedDec 8, 2016
+1
The thing is with the sandbox setup it promotes being lazy, copying your report outright is meta, no strategy to cc roles, its completely random if you win or not. This means it will never be taken seriously. Theres no strategy, just some cool moments where you need to remember some role logic. Its why most of it is boring unless you get a cool role, its why people say roles are 'weak' or 'OP'. They're not, each role is building blocks for a creative and unique setup. In main lobby, people just play the popular setups, but sandbox should be a place where people join random wacky setups and think, with the occasional closed role game to sit back chat and relax.
USADec 8, 2016
Alright boyo, I read through your whole cry baby rant this time. You might complain that there is no strategy but there is. Most people aren't playing to win. When they see 2 votes on someone, they join in. If you were smart enough you'd recognize this happens 90% of the time and you can create a strategy around it. If you want a game where everyone is actively trying to win then go to Main.

As for the people playing the same set-up over and over again, it's what we do, it's what we know, and we're used to it.

This is all just my opinion.
deletedDec 8, 2016
Well boyo if you think there's strategy to sandbox there's no point arguing with you
USADec 8, 2016
Minishoni
Well boyo if you think there's strategy to sandbox there's no point arguing with you
deletedDec 8, 2016
nice bait
deletedDec 8, 2016
you are whats wrong with sandbox
sl0ndermanDec 8, 2016
+1
How can you say there is strategy in sandbox and in the same breath claim that people aren't playing to win? Further to the point, why bother joining the game if you're just going to vote and not even attempt to win except by a stroke of luck? Those who even try in the slightest in sandbox are usually awarded with wins because of the sheer lack of effort employed by the players here. People trying makes games so much more enjoyable, instead of the dull situation that we have now. I still say breaking the monotony is the kick in the pants that sandbox players need to realize that there is actually a game to be played.
RogelioDec 8, 2016
I tried to make a Virgin Nights (ten virgins, two yakuzas). People did just not join.
USADec 8, 2016!
sl0nderman
How can you say there is strategy in sandbox and in the same breath claim that people aren't playing to win?
Using the fact that people aren't playing to win is part of the strategy. Gotta capitalize on their brain dead sheep behavior. If you want actual competition i'm pretty sure there's a lobby for that.

Further to the point, why bother joining the game if you're just going to vote and not even attempt to win except by a stroke of luck?
Why not?

On a side note, screw you for calling me a dumbass for having a different opinion. I think your love for anime is childish and sickening. But I don't put you in a game mode saying that.
deletedDec 8, 2016
+2
"Yes, part of that is the lack of rules, but the other part is that there is less strategy in a closed roles setup than in normal ones." i'm going to disagree with that point and that point alone (i'm a huge fan of diversifying sandbox setups i agree with your other points) just because i feel like with a closed roles setup your mind is constantly running through a million different scenarios and it keeps me more alert and that's probably why i like playing it vs main setups that are the exact same strategies over and over. just because people in sandbox tend to not take it seriously doesn't mean there's no strategy involved
deletedDec 8, 2016
+2
other than that though i do agree with you and also with plissken i'm a huge fan of his setups and i can't even count how many times we've had to remake games or change to a smaller setup because no one wants to join.
GolbolcoDec 8, 2016
Ally
"Yes, part of that is the lack of rules, but the other part is that there is less strategy in a closed roles setup than in normal ones." i'm going to disagree with that point and that point alone (i'm a huge fan of diversifying sandbox setups i agree with your other points) just because i feel like with a closed roles setup your mind is constantly running through a million different scenarios and it keeps me more alert and that's probably why i like playing it vs main setups that are the exact same strategies over and over. just because people in sandbox tend to not take it seriously doesn't mean there's no strategy involved
Like I said about trying in an earlier post: it's not the setups, it's the people who lack strategy. Plenty just tab out and come back to NL/vote whoever the PR says is the mafia, then leave again. People who are watching the game aren't very common in my experience.
yonk5Dec 9, 2016
+1
What's Role Patrol? Also I agree that it sucks. I always try to make cool setups but nobody joins them, I even tried some of the more popular old setups and 5 players joined but then left.
sl0ndermanDec 10, 2016
+1
A miracle today, we actually managed to fill an 11 person open roles setup. Good job sandbox!
deletedDec 14, 2016
100% agree! I've been saying this for ages - more varied setups whether they're closed roles or not.
PlisskenDec 19, 2016
I don't think I can take seriously people who support this thread and then go contribute to the problem. Again, I don't support banning the 12 closed role crap games, but they are a cancer to sandbox and maybe it's time had a large group of people refuse to play in them for a time. Like, some months and start making their own games and reteaching and reprogramming the players to do things differently. I've seen it done many times just never for a long time. The more people just say "Yeah, this is so right" but then go contribute, that helps nothing. So the next time you wanna host, do what I do. Make your own. Most people stay in my games until the end because they are invested in something I thought through as oppose to going into some random game and most people leave as soon as they die, which doesn't take long and then hurry to the next game that the current three hosts are racing each other to make in quick succession. That's all that goes on. Any given day.
PlisskenDec 19, 2016
No one truly cares about the outcome. I'm not saying not ever, but rarely. It's not even going through the motions, it's just joining and dying purely for the hell of it. No thought, no creativity, no effort. I like the games people make themselves, but there aren't enough of them. We need to make those games outnumber the 12 player closed role games. And I still think we should just split the lobby so 12 player closed role games would be its own thing and sanbox could go back to what it truly means.
sl0ndermanDec 19, 2016
+1
well in many cases its either play the games or don't play at all. i don't particularly feel like hopping over to main every time i want to play mafia.
sl0ndermanApr 14, 2017
hey as long as we're necroing threads how about this one

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The worst thing about sandbox games is...

Diversity in Setups

I pledge to do my part and bring a little damn variety into sandbox.
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