The Sandbox Setup70

sl0nderman47mon 3d
+13

It's really sad that main has better setup diversity. Sure they may play Fancy Pants too much, but at least their competitive setups rotate and new things are coming into play every now and again. When I was testing out some new setups with the Role Patrol group, we were overlooked in sandbox but games filled in minutes in Main.

Closed roles didn't always exist. It was suggested back in 2011. When I joined in 2012, sandbox still wasn't completely dominated with closed roles games. Sandbox was just the lobby you could play for fun, instead of the serious attitude in Training or Competitive (for you newbies, training became Main lobby and the dedicated competitive lobby died off). When I started playing and I was my turn to host, I would hand make a setup each time, trying to put a little balance in it as I went. Maybe the Sandbox Setup is so popular out of laziness. It's right there, stickied, and ready to go and you know people will join it at this point so might as well, right?

Did you know there are over 1,200,000 setups saved? Sure most of them will be crap and duplicates, but even out of half of them Sandbox will be playing the same old closed roles one (with the occasional update with new roles, of course).

This is the part of the post when I do a counter point. "But sl0nderman," you are saying to yourself, "the beauty of closed roles is that you get a semi-unique setup each time you host!" Well this is where Sandbox gets part of it's reputation of "not trying." Yes, part of that is the lack of rules, but the other part is that there is less strategy in a closed roles setup than in normal ones. There's little to no way of knowing what roles are in play for the average player in the Sandbox Setup, which in turn causes people to not think about actions as much. Say you went to gun you friend but they were actually a granny and you died. Say everyone just automatically NL'd on the first day but there was an interrogator in play and he just killed the doctor. You can't fault the players for this, there's no way to play around literally every role in the game.

Maybe I've been around too long (which is silly because I've not even close to one of the oldest users on the site), but don't you get bored, Sandbox? Obviously there are those of you who are so done with games that you've complete given up and just sit around in the chat.

I invite everyone who is willing to play games to do a very simple thing. Host a different setup and try something new. There are literally a million to choose from. You'll probably start having more fun that you realize.

EDIT: SHUFFLING THE NUMBER OF PLAYERS AROUND IS FAKE DIVERSITY

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JamalMarleyDec 6, 2016
I agree with this.
deletedDec 6, 2016
Remove endo's and put in 3rd party
tigermomDec 6, 2016!
+2
I think this all boils down to hosting more varied games, that's all. No need to artificially promote "diverse games" by stickying them amongst the stickied setups (although that wouldn't hurt as they're all identical lol).
BebopDec 6, 2016
+2
I also agree, setup diversity in Sandbox would be a great thing to see.
BebopDec 6, 2016
+1
Ohdearmycatisgone
Remove endo's and put in 3rd party
It's already happened.
GolbolcoDec 6, 2016
+3
I think a big part of why people only host the same 3-4 setups or their own personalized ones over and over again is that for the most part, people are guaranteed to join them. Hosting a Plissken game or an experimental setup for more possible play in Main or just something different, however, just won't fill as fast, if at all. Main lobby has the same problem, I've been making new setups for Role Patrol to utilize new roles or just to introduce more life, but as you say, sl0nd, people just like their fancy pants.

I have more thoughts on the other things you bring up, but I'll talk about them in a little bit.
BebopDec 6, 2016
+1
Golbolco
I think a big part of why people only host the same 3-4 setups or their own personalized ones over and over again is that for the most part, people are guaranteed to join them.
This is true, I've tried hosting other setups that I've created (for example, most recently I've hosted a setup I created to try to work in President) but they just don't fill. 7-3-2 styled setups suck up the players.
SirAmelioDec 6, 2016
+3
yeah same, its not just about hosting. people arent usually interested in joining. filling an open roles setup is not easy, unless its a meme one like 9 deputies and 3 snipers...

i have hosted some of these setups before and they took a while to fill, with people joining 7-3-2 and that was with me actually linking the game in skype groups...
GolbolcoDec 6, 2016!
+4
sl0nderman's OP
This is the part of the post when I do a counter point. "But sl0nderman," you are saying to yourself, "the beauty of closed roles is that you get a semi-unique setup each time you host!" Well this is where Sandbox gets part of it's reputation of "not trying."
Here's the thing about one of Sandbox's most common play styles, though: a lot people really don't try in most games. And I'm certainly guilty of not trying from time to time myself. It's already a drag to get a 12-player closed roles game filled, and once everyone's there most just seem to tab out and only vote so they don't veg. Sometimes they'll troll or do meme things like vote the clear, which gives Sandbox players such a bad reputation.

From my point of view, closed roles setup should be all about role logic. You should know all about your role, all of its interactions, and how to best play it, and then use your knowledge against people. Pay attention and play the game, don't just sit there and bandwagon. That doesn't mean you have to be "super cereal on the dot like Main lobby" all the time, that just means you're playing the game and you won't get reported thrice if you win.
ashesDec 6, 2016
+1
I try my best to play seriously in Sandbox. I use the lack of rules to my favor, to the point some people have called me "psychopathic" with my strats.

The problem is, this is how it's been since 2014. Maybe earlier. Old habits die hard. And I don't see Sandbox people bothering to try with logic/complex setups like VDLI, or even FP.
USADec 6, 2016!
+1
It's really sad that main has better setup diversity.


There is an extremely low chance that the usual 12 player set-up will have the same exact roles as a previous game. It is so extremely diverse that you ignore the fact that it is diverse.

Want to stop the 12 player set-up train? Create a set-up that doesn't suck balls. Take inspiration from the Wolf Hunter set-up (https://epicmafia.com/setup/356450) that was mildly successful in 2011 and 2012.

I didn't read the rest of your post because it's too long and your first statement is false.
deletedDec 7, 2016
There should be a day when closed role setups are banned
BebopDec 7, 2016
+3
Cubotv1
There should be a day when closed role setups are banned
1. enforcing that would be hellish
2. no
deletedDec 7, 2016
+2
this is a good idea!! I'd love to play more sets like reverse maf and sets that continually get comped carefree in sandbox. I love sandbox but I also love main lobby sets ((but I'm too anxious to play ranked)) and no one joins anything but FP in main

I join any sets I see that are made for main lobby played in sadbox cause it's rly fun!! it sucks how ppl will sheep everyone and just play the usual 7-3-2 even though it's reeeeeeaaallllllyyyyyyy grown stale over years just as sl0nd pointed out
sl0ndermanDec 7, 2016
+3
User of Epicmafia, I borrow a moment of your wandering eyes once again.

I still find it extremely depressing that even the slightest change, such as a deck being included in a game, causes players to so quickly to commit suicide. Are they blind and cannot see the obvious indicators of what the setup holds? Are they so stubborn than if the setup is not exactly as they expect, it is unplayable? Are they so selfish as they cannot bear to play a single game without their colored text?

This is a truly cancerous attitude that sandbox has adopted. As I and many others have stated, it was not always like this nor does it have to continue as this! Join things that differ from the norm of Sandbox and you will enjoy yourself by breaking the monotony! You can trust me on this fact!
GolbolcoDec 8, 2016
+1
It's incredible when you go into Sandbox, join a Plissken game and nobody joins, instead flooding back into 12 players closed roles. What makes the same setup so appealing to people that it sucks all the life out of the lobby and makes people sui race over it? This is SANDBOX, people, a genre of video games where traditional structured gameplay is ignored in favor of freedom and experimentation. This is how troll setups get started, to mess with people and try to make you think before you mindlessly shuffle into an open game only to tab out and veg on the first night.
PlisskenDec 8, 2016
+2
As a known advocate of the TRUE nature of what Sandbox is and should be I 100% endorse this. I have been here longer than 2 years, but have hosted over 2 years and I have created over 150+ unique setups and I am nearing my 200th in April 2017. I have had fun with three different generations of my circle, players, followers, supporters, whatever you wanna call em, I call em The Snake Pit.

We play fun interesting fresh games. My games are themed, synergy based or suspense and pulling you out of your comfort zone.

If you have a vast amount of flavors of donuts, over like 7,000 flavors and only use 90, where's the fun in that? That's what most do here and I've been sick of it for a long time.

I also hate Main Lobbyist. I dont advocate the robotic style in which they play and about it to mods if you dont play like a robot. True endless possibility and individual strategy cant be dictated by strict restricting rules.

Sandbox is wonderful, but it's these people... not only not utilizing all the roles possible in various ways that are different, but even game settings. Simply using different icons. I have several different styled games, but if I put up a Must Lynch, ppl run from that or a Must Act.

I have taken some of the most hated roles in the game and made people love them. I took roles thought unbeatable and proved otherwise, even one of my very own games. I have had fun with people in having some of my games teach me things even I hadn't considered about them and I carefully craft and construct my setups.
PlisskenDec 8, 2016
+2
I have watched people become idiotically complacent with being in short games. Why? Why do you want to not fill larger games? Anyone who knows me knows what setup in particular I'm known for. SAW: Mafia Massacre. It is the best setup I've ever created and the most popular and it's small at only 10 players and it's just... not the same unless I host it, trust me. But the point is I know small or medium games are fun, I support all sizes, but as much as I have made smaller games complex, and lengthy, my most popular in particular, I have to say you all are missing out on what you can do with larger ones.


I always have told people logically if no one leaves every game would fill. Just stay because by the time you leave to play the next boring closed role you're in and out quicker than you had a chance to even try to strategize, but being in a longer game is somehow a turn off.

It's fun to be in a longer game as well. I know some people are like me, they came here because Slasher died. Slasher had limited roles, but the atmosphere and the length and the way the game was setup and it's chat, all of it made those few roles and this magic have immense replay value.

Here you have waaaay more roles and most of the people waste them... it's such a shame.

I'm happy to see the few that try. The ones like those people a year ago who filled a 17er and a 25er in the deadest hours of EM when no one thought it would fill and laughed and I said look, it's not just me, it's all of us, it's a team effort and it filled and fun was had. For a lengthy time.

There's so much more to it, but you nailed it. Sandbox isn't filled with more players that understand what they really have in the palm of their hands.
PlisskenDec 8, 2016
+2
They want a premature ejaculation of a game that 12 player closed role games would give not a viagra feuled rock hard rush that a Plissken game would give them.


And it's not everyone, but people are leaving as well. Most notable names have left and others come in their place and the game lives on now if only we could get more people to be creative.



I petitioned against this crap once and I would be for banning it, but then I'd be limiting people's wide range freedom of game play. But maybe... one day people will see what's in front of them.

In Slasher we didnt have a choice, but the damn community, roles, atmosphere and setup was just so awesome. I still miss how you could have one game go on literally for days and preset it for friends with invites etc. I still say it's the best version of this game style, but I do love being a EM Host and I do love Sandbox and I do love seeing even a few people enjoy something different and express their happiness with that after every hiatus I take.



Down with the Same Old Boring Closed Role Crap
PlisskenDec 8, 2016
+1
Lastly it seems like people dont wanna think or try anymore either. They want every game they play handed to them. They dont wanna play, they are like Main Lobbyist, they play robotically. It isn't playing, it's reciting what you're 'suppose to do' In a Plissken game you do whatever you want and expect anything and dont conform for the hell of it and my games are set up to help set that tone. Any game is really, but you have to be willing to stop having your hand held and switch up your play style as well.

That had to be said as well. People dont like to do anything they just wanna watch and go through the motions. It's like playing Tell Tale Games reaction based stuff (i do like TellTale) but it's basically you watching a long movie while tapping buttons every now and then. You can do that or you can play GTA....

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The worst thing about sandbox games is...

Diversity in Setups

I pledge to do my part and bring a little damn variety into sandbox.
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